Who are those ALL God has Mercy On ?

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by savedbymercy, Jul 9, 2015.

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  1. savedbymercy

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    Rom 11:32

    32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

    We know that this ALL cannot possibly be all mankind without exception, for many shall yet die in their sins in Unbelief Jn 8:24

    24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

    Whereas those in Rom 11:32, God gave them over to unbelief in order to have Mercy Upon them while in it, it would contradict His Purpose of Mercy to therefore condemn them in it and for it !

    But the ALL here are all the Vessels of Mercy, from out of the jews and from out of the Gentiles Rom 9:23-24, those whom had been Chosen in Christ their Covenant Surety before the foundation, and as such, God gave them an interest in His Covenant with His Son, and so He shall have Mercy upon them while they are in Unbelief Isa 54:10

    10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the Lord that hath mercy on thee.

    Gods Mercy is a Covenant Blessing, its not for all Mankind, but only a Remnant, a Remnant according to the Election of Grace, those whom He [Christ] was given as a Covenant Surety unto Isa 42:6-7

    I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

    7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

    That Prison they are brought out of is unbelief !
     
  2. SovereignGrace

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    Who are those ALL God has Mercy On ?

    The sheep, the elect, the bride of Christ.
     
  3. BrotherJoseph

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    See BrotherSovereign you and brother SavedbyMecry can find common ground on something's!
     
  4. steaver

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    Amen! Me too :jesus:
     
  5. Van

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    Whoa, lets stop and back up and speak with clarity.

    First, lets start with the NASB translation of Romans 11:32, For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.

    First, it is the KJV that has "concluded them all in unbelief?"

    Second, instead of concluded we have (1) shut up, (2) consigned, (3) imprisoned, (4) bound, (5) locked, (6) placed, and (7) enclosed. The actual Greek word means to close together, so close up, lock up, enclose and shut up translate the word literally. While "con" (together) "clude" (close) may have been literal, now the word meaning has drifted toward, to bring to an end (conclude a meeting) or reach accordance, (a conclusion.)

    The second key word, translated as "disobedience" in the NASB seems in this context to refer to choosing not to believe or not to believe in a way that alters behavior. So in this usage, unbelief seems better, providing better clarity and accuracy of message.

    Our next key word, "show" refers specifically of God granting even to the unworthy favor, benefits, opportunities, and particularly salvation by Christ. Thus to show or provide mercy does not necessarily mean salvation for all, but the possibility of salvation for all.

    So even though many die in their unbelief, God has shown mercy to all because Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all.

    God does not contradict His purpose in condemning all in unbelief, John 3:18.

    God's mercy has a range of actions, and is not limited to only referring to salvation. All of God's provisions (food, shelter, refuge) reflect His general mercy upon mankind.
     
    #5 Van, Jul 12, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2015
  6. Revmitchell

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    Rom 9:22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
     
  7. Rippon

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    NIV :
    "For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all."

    The word "all" of course is with reference to those who will believe.

    A related passage is Galatians 3:22:
    "But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe."

    "To those who believe." There is no hint as to possible salvation for all.
    The English word mercy here and in most of its usages in Scripture is with reference to salvation --not temporal blessings. See Romans 9:14 and 16.
     
  8. savedbymercy

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    Did you understand the points made in the OP ?
     
  9. steaver

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    Calvinist kinda gloss over the part where God makes BOTH vessels to honour and to dishonor.

    So how then does God MAKE vessels for dishonor and yet stand apart from being the first cause of their sin?

    Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear....(Ro 11)

    Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God....(Heb 3)

    So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief....(Heb 3)

    Sin is dealt with and paid for by the blood of the Lamb, not for believers only but that is the sins of the WHOLE WORLD. What is left is what has been from the beginning......FAITH. Abraham believed God and it was imputed unto him for righteousness.
     
  10. savedbymercy

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    Then how does some die in their sins in unbelief Jn 8:24 ? If their sins have been paid for, then they should not be able to die in them still, thats a major contradiction and flaw in your beliefs !
     
  11. convicted1

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    Correct.

    Sent from my BNTV400 using Tapatalk
     
  12. savedbymercy

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    What do you mean? Do you believe that Christ death saved from sins, every one He died for, and if one died in their sins in unbelief, that Christ death wasn't for them?
     
  13. Van

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    Its the same ol same ol limited atonement mistaken doctrine yet again.
    Jesus became the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world.
    Jesus laid down His life as a ransom for all.
    Jesus tasted death for everyone.

    Even a person headed for destruction, 2 Peter 2:1 has been bought with the blood of Christ. He died for those saved or would be saved and those unsaved and would remain unsaved, as in 2 Peter 2:1.

    The key is to accept we are reconciled, i.e. receive the reconciliation, not when Christ died 2000 years ago, but when God credits our faith as righteousness and places us (sets us apart) in Christ.

    Note the effort to define mercy as referring only to salvation, and denying that laying down His life as a ransom for all, was an act of mercy for everyone, including those who will remain unsaved, i.e. 2 Peter 2:1. Christ's death then provides the opportunity to have our sins removed, when we receive the reconciliation. Therefore if folks do not receive the reconciliation, then they die in unbelief and receive just punishment for their sins in Hades/Gehenna.
     
    #13 Van, Jul 13, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2015
  14. savedbymercy

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    van

    Invalid comment, 2 Pet 2:1 says nothing about those headed for destruction having been bought with the Blood of Christ, You imposed that into the verse. Theres a warning about that Prov 30:6

    Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
     
  15. steaver

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    I'm sure you have read Jesus' EXCEPTION of the ONE SIN that is NOT forgiven.

    You see, God is the BOSS! He can make the rules His way. He is PERMITTED to declare ALL BUT ONE.

    "Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme.
    But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:"
     
  16. savedbymercy

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    You have failed to answer the question ! John 8:24 says they shall die in their sins, plural ! That sin you bring up here is just one sin, singular !
     
  17. steaver

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    Do you think those who blasphemy the Holy Spirit just do it once or over and over?

    Do you see where Jesus said ALL sin shall be forgiven EXCEPT this one?
     
  18. Van

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    So it seems someone is attempting to deny that bringing swift destruction upon themselves does not mean they were "headed for destruction." Or perhaps denying that the Master who bought them was Christ. Or perhaps denying Christ made the purchase with His blood.

    No matter what, it is an effort to nullify yet another scripture that teaches limited atonement as defined by Calvinism is mistaken.
     
  19. savedbymercy

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    Still making invalid statement!
     
  20. savedbymercy

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    You believe that Men who Christ took away their sins, some how can turn around and die in their sins in unbelief Jn 8:24 ! That's a contradiction!
     
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