Who Bore Christ's Cross?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by tinytim, Mar 26, 2004.

  1. tinytim

    tinytim
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    (Mar 15:21) And they compel one Simon a Cyrenian, who passed by, coming out of the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to bear his cross.

    (Mat 27:32) And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross.

    (Luk 23:26) And as they led him away, they laid hold upon one Simon, a Cyrenian, coming out of the country, and on him they laid the cross, that he might bear [it] after Jesus.

    (Joh 19:17) And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called [the place] of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:


    I have always assumed that Jesus started out, then fell, and then Simon carried it the rest of the way.
    Am i wrong?

    Someone told me that the only cross Jesus bore was a spiritual one. That Simon bore the physical one.

    I have also heard that Simon only helped carry the cross (based on the word "after" in luke 23.)

    And was it the whole Cross, or the horizontal beam, or was it the vertical beam.

    Could Jesus have carried, say, the horizontal, while Simon carried the vertical.

    The answer probably makes no difference. But I have heard that it would be blashemy to say that Jesus fell under the weight of the cross.
     
  2. HankD

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    Hi Tiny, you said...
    Why? Why is that blasphemy and to say that He died on that cross is not? Just curious as to the reasoning.

    Being a former Catholic I can tell you about the "tradition" of the Crucifixion of Christ I learned as a boy.

    There is a Church of Rome traditional prayer ritual called the Stations of the Cross which follows Jesus along the "via delorosa" from the judgment hall to Golgatha with a pictures depicting events along the way.

    In this exercise the Tradition of Rome says that Jesus fell three times under the weight of the cross. There are 14 stations of the Cross.

    At the sixth station (after the first fall) Veronica wipes the face of Jesus with her veil and as the Roman Tradition has it, He left a perfect imprint of His face upon her veil. There are several "Veronica's veil" imprints which claim to be the "true" veil.

    The Passion of the Christ follows the Stations of the Cross pattern.

    HankD
     
  3. tinytim

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    I never really understood the reasoning that they consider it blasphemy, I just remember hearing about it when i was growing up.

    Probably a misinterpretation of the cross he bore.

    If someone only believes He bore a Mental Cross, then It would seem to them that he fell he failed.

    Thanks for replying. I never learned about the stations of the Cross. very interesting.
     
  4. MalkyEL

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    TinyTim wrote:
    I never really understood the reasoning that they consider it blasphemy, I just remember hearing about it when i was growing up.

    Probably a misinterpretation of the cross he bore.

    If someone only believes He bore a Mental Cross, then It would seem to them that he fell he failed.

    MalkyEL:
    I think what is believed, is that if Jesus fell while carrying the cross, it would mean He was weak and therefore it would be considered blasphemy. However; as He did not carry His cross at all, per scripture, that would not be applicable.

    Could you explain what you mean by people saying He carried a mental cross?

    Thanks, MalkyEL ;)
     
  5. tinytim

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    I think it means like you and I would say today that we each have a cross to bear. Not a physical one, but an allegory. Maybe the owrd mental was a wrong one to use.
     
  6. MalkyEL

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    TinyTim wrote:
    I think it means like you and I would say today that we each have a cross to bear. Not a physical one, but an allegory. Maybe the owrd mental was a wrong one to use.

    MalkyEL: I think if we look at scripture, the concept of picking up our cross, is a spiritual one. That would be different than allegorical. Suffering for Jesus is to be expected as part of life in Him. That suffering is spiritual, and often physical at times.

    Imho, I believe that Jesus suffered more spiritually, than physically. I am not downplaying His physical suffering, but rather looking at it Biblically. His suffering in the garden was a spiritual one - as He contemplated the weight of sin that was to be placed upon Him.

    There is no human way to comprehend the magnitude of this weight and responsibility. I believe that this is why He prayed to let the cup pass, not because He was not willing to die for our sin, but because He knew what He would face - separation from His Father because He was made sin for us - The Sacrificial Lamb.

    We have only a "glimpse" of oneness with God here on earth. Jesus is God. For that reason, to be separated from Him was anathama and an extreme, excruiciating weight of grief, sorrow, and agony. He was 100% willing, but also knew the separation would be more painful than anything known to us.

    It is this cross that we bear for His sake - to know, to suffer spiritually [and many times this is reflected physically] for His sake.

    Psa 22:1 [[To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.]] My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? [why art thou so] far from helping me, [and from] the words of my roaring?

    Mar 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

    Act 5:41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

    Act 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

    Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together.

    Phl 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

    2Th 1:5 [Which is] a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

    2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with [him]: if we deny [him], he also will deny us:

    1Pe 4:16 Yet if [any man suffer] as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

    1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls [to him] in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

    In other words, if you are a true disciple/follower/believer in Jesus, you will suffer for His sake. I think that many Christians overlook this as part of their lives in Jesus. That is why the path is narrow and few find it.

    Shalom, MalkyEL
     
  7. Glory Bound

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    I have always heard the same thing - but looking at the scriptures in Matthew, Mark, and Luke I'm not so sure anymore. They seem pretty clear that Simon was made to carry the cross. Yet Johns account differs. What's up with that?
     
  8. Dr. Bob

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    Note the time sequence in melding the accounts of this scene:

    Jesus "went forth" from Pilate's Hall carrying His cross (cross beam, not the 180 pound total cross; that's absurd and not historical).

    "As they came out" from Pilate's Hall, Simon "passed by".

    He was "found" by the Roman soldiers.

    He was "compelled" to carry the crossbeam.
     
  9. Baptist Believer

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    I have always heard the same thing - but looking at the scriptures in Matthew, Mark, and Luke I'm not so sure anymore. They seem pretty clear that Simon was made to carry the cross. Yet Johns account differs. What's up with that? </font>[/QUOTE]John's account does not contradict... It merely gives less detail.

    Christ "went forth" bearing His cross toward the place of the skull. John does not bother giving us the information regarding Simon because that was not his intent with his gospel (not writing a biography as much as he was writing about "signs" of Christ so that his readers might believe) and the details had already been covered in the widely circulated gospels of Mark, Matthew and Luke.
     
  10. Glory Bound

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    It still looks like contradiction to me... the first three Gospels don't even say that Jesus actually carried His cross at all... but that they made Simon carry it.

    John's Gospel says that Jesus was "bearing His cross"... no mention of Simon.

    I could see neglecting to mention Simon... but John indicates Jesus alone carried the cross, while the first 3 indicate Simon alone carried the cross.

    :confused:
     
  11. sharpSword

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    If you look at the Greek words for bearing His cross, in the three gospels versus John....it's a different word.

    From Matthew: 27:27-32 

    Matthew 27: 27 Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the common hall, and gathered unto him the whole band of soldiers...31 And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him, and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him.
    ** 32 And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross. [KJV]

    *** 32 .... him &lt;touton&gt; they compelled &lt;aggareuo&gt; to &lt;hina&gt; bear &lt;airo&gt; his &lt;autos&gt; cross &lt;stauros&gt;.

    From Strong's Concordance: bear &lt;airo&gt;
    142. airw airo, ah'-ee-ro a primary root; to lift up; by implication, to take up or away; figuratively, to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind), specially, to sail away (i.e. weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare 5375) to expiate sin:--away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up). 

    In Mark :
    Mark 15:16 And the soldiers led him away into the hall, called Praetorium; and they call together the whole band...20 And when they had mocked him, they took off the purple from him, and put his own clothes on him, and led him out to crucify him. 21 And they compel one Simon a Cyrenian, who passed by, coming out of the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to bear his cross. [KJV]
    **21.... to bear &lt;airo&gt; his &lt;autos&gt; cross &lt;stauros&gt;.

    Same as Matthew &gt; bear &gt; airo

    In Luke: 
    Luke 23:26 And as they led him away, they laid hold upon one Simon, a Cyrenian, coming out of the country, and on him they laid the cross, that he might bear it after Jesus. 27 And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him. 28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children. [KJV]

    ***26 .... and on &lt;epitithemi&gt; him &lt;autos&gt; they laid &lt;epitithemi&gt; the cross &lt;stauros&gt;, that he might bear &lt;phero&gt; it after &lt;opisthen&gt; Jesus &lt;Iesous&gt;.

    From Strong's Concordance: that he might bear &lt;phero&gt;
    5342. ferw phero, fer'-o a primary verb -- for which other, and apparently not cognate ones are used in certain tenses only; namely, 

    oio oy'-o; and enegko en-eng'-ko 

    to "bear" or carry (in a very wide application, literally and figuratively, as follows):--be, bear, bring (forth), carry, come, + let her drive, be driven, endure, go on, lay, lead, move, reach, rushing, uphold.

    From Strong's Concordance: it after &lt;opisthen&gt;
    3693. opisten opisthen, op'-is-then from opis (regard; from 3700) with enclitic of source; from the rear (as a secure aspect), i.e. at the back (adverb and preposition of place or time):--after, backside, behind.
     

    John 19:16 Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.
    17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha: [KJV]

    ****17 And he bearing &lt;bastazo&gt; his &lt;autos&gt; cross &lt;stauros&gt; went forth &lt;exerchomai&gt;

    From Strong's Concordance: And he bearing &lt;bastazo&gt;

    941. bastazw bastazo, bas-tad'-zo &gt; perhaps remotely derived from the base of 939 (through the idea of removal); to lift, literally or figuratively (endure, declare, sustain, receive, etc.):--bear, carry, take up. 

    939. basiv basis, bas'-ece from baino (to walk); a pace ("base"), i.e. (by implication) the foot:--foot.

    From Strong's Concordance: went forth &lt;exerchomai&gt;

    1831. exercomai exerchomai, ex-er'-khom-ahee from 1537 and 2064; to issue (literally or figuratively):--come (forth, out), depart (out of), escape, get out, go (abroad, away, forth, out, thence), proceed (forth), spread abroad

    If we compare the use of 'bastazo' with other verses, the concept can and is applied to the spiritual act of bearing a cross or burden. In fact it is the word used in a similar verse,

    Luke 14:27 And whosoever doth &lt;bastazo&gt; not &lt;ou&gt; bear &lt;bastazo&gt; his &lt;autos&gt; cross &lt;stauros&gt;, and come &lt;erchomai&gt; after me , cannot be my disciple. [KJV]

    The witness of the first three Gospels does not contradict the spiritual application in John, I don't think. Simon was compelled to carry the physical cross for Jesus, from the time He left the Hall.
     
  12. Glory Bound

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    So Jesus didn't carry his cross at all, Simon did. John's account refers to bearing a burden rather than a physical cross.
     
  13. sharpSword

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    Hi Glory Bound. It seems to me that with the two different words used for it, and the fact that it says that Simon followed behind Jesus, and the fact that it says the soldiers put the cross on Simon, and never mentioned putting it on Jesus...I personally think that is correct. Being also that the three gospels are in agreement and are witness that Simon was carrying it...
    That does not negate anything Jesus fulfilled prophetically and Scripturally, regarding the cross and crucifixion.
     
  14. Charles Meadows

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    HankD,

    You're bringing me back to grade school memories! Stations of the cross at 3:00 every Friday in lent...The nuns would slap our hands if we whispered to one another!

    "We adore you O Christ and we bless you - because by your holy cross you have redeemed the world. And now we come to the fifth station..."

    I recall once an 80 year old retired Albanian priest filled in for the pastor; he forgot three stations and threw everybody off with the recitation thing! [​IMG]
     
  15. tinytim

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    Sharpsword, thank you for your input. That certainly goes along with what I was told. Now I can see why they would believe it that way.
    I hope you don't mind if I cut and paste your response to my personal files for further reference?
     
  16. sharpSword

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    Hi Tiny Tim, Of course you can utilize the information. [​IMG] I like to break things down when I study, and all it is Scripture and Strong's lookups and cross references. By all means. And if you find anything else that indicates further on it, please let me know.
     

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