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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Brother Bob, Aug 9, 2006.
Was it the Son of God, Jesus Christ that died on the cross or was it God Himself?
Eh? What kind of question is this? Jesus came down to earth.
The Father did not.
Its being asked on a Baptist thread and wonder what everyone here thought?
Of course it was Jesus. I don't understand how somebody could ask such a question.
Personally I think that it is a good question. Jesus was God in the flesh. Jesus is God as well as the Holy Spirit is God. Thats the trinity.
Technically it was Jesus Christ who died on the Cross. If it wasn't Jesus then John 3:16 wouldn't be true. But the fine line is that they all died on the Cross because they all three are one.
Then was our God dead while Jesus was dead three days?
Jesus IS "God the Son" - the 2nd person of the Trinity.
Are you asking if God ceased to be or if God died?
I think it is correct to say that Jesus died for our sins and that God was in Christ suffering for our sins --
But I don't think we can argue that God the Son "ceased to exist" while in the tomb. Jesus said HE was the one giving up His Life and HE was the one that would take up His life again. He has "life IN Himself" as does the Father.
did his physical body die? yes. when you think about it everyones physical body dies, but the soul does not.
In Christian Love,
what about the Scripture "he was made a little lower than the angels" You think God Himself was made lower than the angels. Also that which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit. Another, "No one knoweth that hour, not even the Son but only the Father which is in Heaven".
Can you explain those Scriptures and also if as you say His flesh died, then was part of God dead for three days while Jesus laid in the tomb?
Jesus was the God-man. We can't divide his humanity from his deity - it's impossible. Trying to do so has been the basis for many heresies, past and present. All we know is that Jesus did die on the cross; of course our immaterial self never dies.
"Lower than the angels" -- this does not mean Jesus was less than God when he was on earth. It just means he humbled himself to be incarnated so he could taste death for all men.
The Son of God has always been co-equal with God the Father, though on earth, he subjected himself to God's will to show humility and perfect obedience.
I agree Marcia but this does not come out and say did a third part of the Trinity die or not? I know it was Jesus that died and I know that He is a third part of Trinity and that the three make One Godhead. What I am asking is did a third part of the Trinity die when Jesus died?
We know His Humanity died on the Cross then what happened to His deity?
I am really being honest here, I find it hard to really put into words the question I am asking.
I like this Marcia, this is very well stated.
Jesus died on the cross
Christ died on the cross
God the Son died on the cross
God died on the cross
God the Father died on the cross
God the Spirit died on the cross
The Trinity died on the cross
Very good Gold Dragon but one more question did a part of the Trinity die on the cross?
No. One of the distinct hypostases or persons of the Trinity died on the cross.
Thanks, LeBuick! :wavey:
There is no answer we can comprehend. The humanity of Jesus cannot be divided from his deity, yet God cannot die. It's a paradox. You'll just have to live with that and ask God when you get to heaven.:smilewinkgrin:
Now, that is what I call an honest woman. I have felt this way all along but you are the first who was brave enough to come out and say it. Thank you and now I can rest. lol
To address the discussion...
To some extent, though I think it may be better to look at it rather as a Dichotomy.
In essence, the essential question that has to be addressed is who was Christ?
We know that he was God made flesh, but we also know that he referred to his "Father in Heaven" and conversely was referred to by God as his "Son with whom I am well pleased".
The first versus of the Book of John I think provide the best insight. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. "
This is a clear reference to Christ and provides staggering insight into the duality that exists between Christ and Yahweh. In that Christ, though born to Earth in a mortal vessel, is as eternal as his father with whom he is separate yet "is in the father".
The problem with this is that most struggle to put it into a relatable concept with which it can be anchored in their understanding. This is usually necessary for much of the Truth that has been given to us by Christ, thus his extensive use of parables.
Such being the case, let us take water. I use this as visual imagery only, though I do find it thought provoking that water plays a pivotal role in Christianity.
But I digress, let us take water. Water itself displays much of the triune nature of God, in that it is capable of maintaining three states that can be reverted back into one another. I am of course referring to solid, liquid and gas. Let us take the very nature of God and think of it as water, and the world as a snow globe. The water encompasses the Globe, filling it and surrounding it in every aspect; much like God's omnipresence. Now take water and freeze it, thus creating Ice. Just as a glacier can maintain it's form within the ocean while it is itself essentially composed of the very substance that sustains it, Christ himself is a physical manifestation of the Father who is of the father and in the father, while maintaining his separate identity. The third piece of this puzzle would be waters final state of steam or vapor, which I think is oddly appropriate for the Holy Ghost.
Thus understanding is not as hard as it first seems, once you have a earthly concept with which you can facilitate understanding.
So, to answer the question of:
The answer is a very firm no. Christ existed separate from his earthly, mortal self since the very creation of existence. Much as we ourselves are immortal souls within mortal shells, so it was with Christ on earth. The Bible actually articulates his death as "Giving up the Ghost", and thus Christ simply abandoned his mortal vessel so that he could descend into paradise and bring the gospel to the souls waiting therein, as well as defeating death and taking the keys from Satan.
When he had accomplished this, he returned to his earthly vessel (along with others who were resurrected with him, so again you have a precedence to go by) and proceeded to be later glorified and raised into heaven while wearing his earthly body (yet another precedence that had been already set with Methuselah's father and with Elijah).
I hope that this will sufficiently answer the question that was raised. Such aspects of theology are rather abstract, but not impossible to comprehend.
Now, I need to go to bed. :sleep: