Who else believes this

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Frenchy, Mar 11, 2006.

  1. Frenchy

    Frenchy
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  2. Helen

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    He is saying that the law must be used to be successful in evangelism. I disagree.

    It is our lives which draw people to Christ, or push them away. Not the law. "Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?" Romans 2:4

    There are so many false conversions because so many are the response to emotional hype or the desire for 'fire insurance' from hell. There is persecution of Christians in this country of the USA, but it is not the physical persecution other countries have. There is an intellectual persecution which has to do with mockery about believing the Bible. People hate to be mocked and not accepted; thus there is a strong movement away from Bible and toward the sort of social gospel which makes everyone feel good. This is not the life-changing experience real Christianity demands and gives, but it has many, many comfortable Christians deceived.

    Real Christians -- true conversions -- are the stuff of which the world makes jokes. What we believe is the subject of ridicule by many, including many false Christians.

    But it still is not law which makes evangelism a success. There are plenty of laws. It is the truth about one's heart and one's reaction to that truth which determines whether or not one is able to accept the death of self which true conversion requires. If the unsaved person does not see a difference in the life of the Christian which he wants to see in his own life, he will not be impelled to the desire to give up the life he has for another one.
     
  3. Helen

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    A little extra: when Jesus talked about the law, it was to those who were depending on the law for salvation. "What must I do to be saved?" etc. "I have kept the law..."

    If one is depending on oneself for salvation, then the law is all one has with which to justify oneself. And one will always therefore fail.
     
  4. Frenchy

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    NO, he is saying that those who are arrogant need the law those who are not, who understand they are a sinner need grace. When I came to Christ i knew i was a sinner therefore the law wasn't needed for me to get saved, understanding that there was a saviour who could take away my sins and love me is what i needed. But i still had an understanding of the law.

    i agree with both of you that too many people want fire assurance and are not comming to God for the right reasons. but i think the main reason that is happening is because the LAW today isn't being preached ONLY grace is. God forbid we offend anyone today. if we present the gospel in a way that shows one that he is a sinner in need of forgiveness, then he can get saved the right way.

    You have to admit Jesus, Paul and many of the great saints in the past have preached the LAW for true converts, and those who preach grace only have mostly numbers and false converts. Billy Graham is a good example. I know a few that say they went forward at a Billy Graham concert but have never changed or go to church.
     
  5. Brutus

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    No greater mistake can be made that to suppose that preaching the law is just Old Testament preaching: it is no less the law of Christ,Mt.5:17.

    Brutus
     
  6. Frenchy

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    I would like to add if any one needs the LAW today it is Americans. we live in a society that is self gratifying, and self centered. If you are a drug addict, overweight, a compulsive shopper spending way beyond your means, alcoholic etc. it is called a DESEASE no one is told it is their fault. Blame is constantly being passed onto others even in the work forse. What do the commercials tell us, you "deserve" this product. We don't deserve anything really.

    No the LAW and acknowledging ones SIN is what produces true converts and is what America's gospel should more and more consist of, not GRACE, grace after the law yes, but not pray this prayer for Jesus to be you saviour (never Lord) and fix all your problems, and if you prayed this you are saved, never having a understanding of Gods law and their sin and the true meaning of why Jesus came.

    No it is God that draws people to himself, we are just his tools John 6:44

    Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses and other sects live good lives too.
     
  7. Frenchy

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    ok I just realized I have been spelling savior wrong. sorry
     
  8. MRCoon

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    Well, Christ only came to save sinners so if it takes the law to make one realize they are a sinner then fine use the law. But to say that those not saved under the "threat" of the law aren't able to be "maintained" as Christians then I disagree with this idea.

    Now I agree that we have too many "easy-believism" religious sects that tend to worry about numbers. I pray more Churches will worry about discipleship and grow from within instead of trying to reach more numbers and forget those already in the pews.
     
  9. blackbird

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    The Law is the SchoolMaster that brings us to Christ! See--thats the problem with our society---we don't want law---so with no law to point our way----no one "appears" lost---and Jesus came to seek and to save those who are lost!!
     
  10. Frenchy

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    key word here is REPENTANCE, you can't repent if you don't acknowledge you are a sinner. true repentance means agreeing with God about your sin and turning away from it. Gods kindness is given both to the saved and unsaved. just as it rains on both he also blesses both. his kindness continues even after you confess your sins he forgives you your sins.
     
  11. Frenchy

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    I agree
     
  12. Gina B

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    What is this "the law" which you speak of?
     
  13. Frenchy

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    10 commandments

    10 commandments were given not to be obeyed so much but to show Gods people they needed a savior, that they in themselves and us today could not live up to the 10 commandments. Jesus even went so far to say if we in our hearts disobeyed the 10 commandments we are still guilty.
     
  14. saturneptune

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    Romans says the law makes us aware of sin. Once a person has a true conversion experience, a life changing relationship with Jesus Christ, it seems to me that the Holy Spirit living in me can make me aware of the law, and lead me to become more like Christ. The Spirit reproves, convicts, etc. I will rely on the Spirit to guide me as a Christian, not someone reciting the ten commandments to me.
     
  15. MRCoon

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    But can you break the Ten Commandments after you're saved and stay saved or do you have to start all over? Because if the law is what convicted you to be saved then why send the Holy Spirit? Just as a Comforter and not as a Convicter?

    It is interesting that this "saved by the law" is still a discussion amongst Christians...did not the first saved Gentiles and the Jews argue these same things in the first Churches? And I think if you read Deuteronomy you'll find that there is a lot more to the Law than 10 Commandments.

    I'm glad that I'm Saved by Grace and Kept by Faith (Yes, I have to pray Lord Help thou my Unbelief, at times) but I'm confident of my Blessed Hope...all of this is without the law forcing me to Christ.
     
  16. Brother Bob

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    Without the Law there would be no sin but you have to make sure what Law you are referring to. "There are those who desire to be teachers of the law and know not what they say nor do they understand that the Law is not for the righteous but for the sinner and the ungodly for the righteous of the Law is fullfilled in us by His Grace. The Law is the deepest subject in the Bible and it would take several pages to really explain the Law (Ten Commandments). There are other Laws such as the Law of Sacrifice, Law of Circumcism but sin is to transgress the Commandments. I often ask, (which Commandment can you be still committing and be a Christian). Can you be in the act of adultry and be a Christian, I don't think so but will the Law save you, no it will not but it will bring you to Christ.
     
  17. Ransom

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    Helen said:

    It is our lives which draw people to Christ, or push them away. Not the law. "Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?" Romans 2:4

    And why does Paul say that God is kind, tolerant, and patient? Because men have broken his laws and offended him personally, and he has forborne destroying humanity where it stands for the offense. That is the very point of the first three chapters of Romans.

    If the unsaved person does not see a difference in the life of the Christian which he wants to see in his own life, he will not be impelled to the desire to give up the life he has for another one.

    And what is the "unsaved person" unsaved from? What does the kindness of God lead to repentance from? Inferior quality of life outside of Christ? No! Sin. And sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4).

    Telling people that the Christian life is more desirable than the pagan life is not the gospel of salvation.
     
  18. genesis12

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    No greater mistake can be made than that the preaching of the law is applicable in the New Testament church! I'd get my hat in a hurry if I attended a church where they preached the law. The Pauline Epistles are sufficient in demonstrating the plan of salvation.
     
  19. Brother Bob

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    Christ did, Paul did and others. If you don't want to call it the Law so be it but a child of God is not a liar, stealer, adulterer or still breaking any of the other ten. And yes the ten Commandments are the Law of The Commandments, not were.

    [ March 12, 2006, 12:03 AM: Message edited by: Brother Bob ]
     
  20. Gina B

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    The ten commandments were "the law"? :confused: Really?
     

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