Who formed the TULIP Doctrine, it wasn't Calvin!

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by revmwc, Apr 8, 2015.

  1. revmwc

    revmwc
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    Who developed the TULIP doctrine.

    I was taught that there are 3 schools of thought. Calvanist, Arminanism and what I align with Pauline.

    What I want to know is who developed the TULIP teaching because it doesn't Calvin himself. Here is an excerpt from Calvin's commentary on 2nd Peter 3 we look at verse 9.

    "But the Lord is not slack, or, delays not. He checks extreme and unreasonable haste by another reason, that is, that the Lord defers his coming that he might invite all mankind to repentance. For our minds are always prurient, and a doubt often creeps in, why he does not come sooner. But when we hear that the Lord, in delaying, shews a concern for our salvation, and that he defers the time because he has a care for us, there is no reason why we should any longer complain of tardiness. He is tardy who allows an occasion to pass by through slothfulness: there is nothing like this in God, who in the best manner regulates time to promote our salvation. And as to the duration of the whole world, we must think exactly the same as of the life of every individual; for God by prolonging time to each, sustains him that he may repent. In the like manner he does not hasten the end of the world, in order to give to all time to repent.
    This is a very necessary admonition, so that we may learn to employ time aright, as we shall otherwise suffer a just punishment for our idleness.
    Not willing that any should perish. So wonderful is his love towards mankind, that he would have them all to be saved, and is of his own self prepared to bestow salvation on the lost. But the order is to be noticed, that God is ready to receive all to repentance, so that none may perish; for in these words the way and manner of obtaining salvation is pointed out. Every one of us, therefore, who is desirous of salvation, must learn to enter in by this way.
    But it may be asked, If God wishes none to perish, why is it that so many do perish? To this my answer is, that no mention is here made of the hidden purpose of God, according to which the reprobate are doomed to their own ruin, but only of his will as made known to us in the gospel. For God there stretches forth his hand without a difference to all, but lays hold only of those, to lead them to himself, whom he has chosen before the foundation of the world. (179)
    But as the verb χωρὢσαι is often taken passively by the Greeks, no less suitable to this passage is the verb which I have put in the margin, that God would have all, who had been before wandering and scattered, to be gathered or come together to repentance."


    "For God there stretches forth his hand without a difference to all, but lays hold only of those, to lead them to himself, whom he has chosen before the foundation of the world."

    Paul says God chose those whom He foreknew, what did God know beforehand, the choice everyone would make about salvation, either to reject or receive, those whom he foreknew them He also did predestinate to become the sons of God.

    Very simple God knew your choice beforehand and predestinated you to be conformed to be a child of God. Notice the Red in Calvin's comments, he says God would that is God's will is for all to come to repentance but even Calvin says not all will. I see nothing on the TULIP teaching in this part of Calvin's writing in fact he says just the opposite of TULIP.
     
  2. robustheologian

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    If I remember correctly TULIP is an acronym formed by Loraine Boettner in his book "The Doctrine of Predestination". TULIP was used to describe the heads of doctrine in the Canons of Dort...which is a Calvinist response to the Articles of Remonstrance that the followers of Jacob Arminius (Arminians) were trying to get the Church to accept.
     
  3. The Archangel

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    Again, the problem with this line of reasoning is that the text of the New Testament generally says that people are foreknown, not things or choices, etc.

    The Archangel
     
  4. Revmitchell

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    Satan...........................
     
  5. revmwc

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    So your saying God isn't omniscient, that would mean John lied in 1st John 3:20 "For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things." Do you see God knows all things. That would mean God knows our thoughts, He knows exactly what you think and He foreknew everything about us including the thoughts of our heart before we were ever born.
    Psalms 94:11 "The Lord knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity." If He knows them now He knew them even in eternity past because God is all knowing.
     
  6. Iconoclast

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    With such excessive hubris it is no wonder you cannot come to truth on this.

    You who is first in line to cry...."arrogance"......now suggest that the believing church has been following Satan:confused::confused: all these men of faith for hundreds of years......:laugh: This is the stupidest post of the year.....
     
  7. robustheologian

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    1 Corinthians 2:14—The unspiritual man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
     
  8. Revmitchell

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    So let me get this straight. You believe my statement is any different than how cals talk to others on this board every day? Really?
     
  9. Doubting Thomas

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    Hmmm....with all the division that it has caused in the church over the past few centuries, you may have a point. :tear:
     
  10. revmwc

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    Merriam Webster Foreknow - to have previous knowledge of

    Dictionary.com foreknow - to know beforehand

    The Free Dictionary foreknow - To have foreknowledge of

    Wikitionary foreknowledge -
    Knowing beforehand, prescience, foresight, precognition

    All these seem to be saying to know about someone or something beforehand.

    Then we see Peter in 1 Peter 1:19-21, 19 "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God."

    Bexcause God Foreknew Adam and Eve thoughts and foreknew they would disobey He Foreordained Christ before the foundation of the world to be the Savior for mankind. God in His omniscience knew man would fall, that would mean He had to know Adam and Eves thoughts before the foundation of the world just as He foreknew our thoughts all because He is omniscient.
     
  11. Revmitchell

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    I don't actually believe it. I am just showing them how they talks to others most every day. They will never admit it but there it is......
     
  12. Doubting Thomas

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    True...it's amazing how often one hears, for instance, that Arminians are "heretics" or are "barely saved" tossed around by Calvinists in the blogosphere. (What I said was somewhat TIC as well).

    It seems with America and the world going to hell, Calvinists/nonCalvinists could better spend their energies with the short time we have on this earth by focusing on our common ground in Christ in combatting the evil anti-Christian forces that are attacking us.
     
  13. Iconoclast

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    well lets get it straight indeed....can you find a post by a cal that says you are of the Devil? that what you believe is of Satan?

    Show that post. To ascribe biblical truth to Satan is quite foolish.

    In your world.....the reformers were following satan, the puritans were following satan, Spurgeon was following satan, John owen, john murray, J.l.. dagg ,......hundereds of others following satan???? get serious.
     
  14. Iconoclast

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    The division is by those who oppose the truth.
    Historically it is those who oppose these teachings that sought to divide.
     
  15. Revmitchell

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    Calvinism is not the truth....so......there is always that. :rolleyes:
     
  16. Iconoclast

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    You might not believe it to be the truth.....that is one thing.
    You might not agree with all or part of it.....that is another thing

    I and others see it as God"s truth revealed and put in a systematic fashion.

    If you and others think you can show otherwise....go for it, give it your best shot. No one despises honest and sincere disagreement.

    Those who understand it as the truth of God will defend that and quite frankly, not one of you have offered a serious challenge to these truths yet.

    To claim now it was "in jest" is very odd.
     
  17. Revmitchell

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    Of course it is. Cals need someone to demonize. Just ask James White.
     
  18. Iconoclast

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    Why would you bring Dr. White into this? I posted a duplicate...see the next post.
     
    #18 Iconoclast, Apr 8, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 8, 2015
  19. Iconoclast

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    Dr. White responds openly to attacks upon the truth wherever they come from.

    Those who do not like Dr. White do so because they cannot refute anything he teaches. You cannot do it RM.....he is not far from you, you could speak to him face to face.

    He teaches on sermonaudio...pick out a message and show where he is not accurate.....you cannot can you?

    He takes live calls on the internet show.....he is not hiding.

    Skandelon will soon find out what the real story is,,,face to face.Skans carnal reasoning and philosophy are going to fall to the truth of scripture.
     
  20. Rippon

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    Rm, once in a while you put out a warning to your fellow non-Calvinists, that they have stepped too far against Calvinists. Those posts of yours are good and edifying.

    But in this thread you absolutely negate any good you have done in the past. I would like you to spend some time away from the BB so you can read the Canons of Dordrecht for yourself. You will discover, much to your surprise, a treasure of biblical wisdom and many reasons why you should praise God.

    Don't demonize. Read, study and meditate on that which is biblical in content. You will come away with a feeling of deep remorse for your remarks here. Are you spiritually mature enough to do this?
     

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