who has harden the heart of God's people

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by psalms109:31, Nov 3, 2007.

  1. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
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    Deuteronomy 7:6
    For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.

    1 Samuel 6:
    6 Why do you harden your hearts as the Egyptians and Pharaoh did? When he [That is, God] treated them harshly, did they not send the Israelites out so they could go on their way?

    2 Chronicles 36:13
    He also rebelled against King Nebuchadnezzar, who had made him take an oath in God's name. He became stiff-necked and hardened his heart and would not turn to the LORD, the God of Israel.
    14 Furthermore, all the leaders of the priests and the people became more and more unfaithful, following all the detestable practices of the nations and defiling the temple of the LORD, which he had consecrated in Jerusalem.
    The Fall of Jerusalem
    15 The LORD, the God of their fathers, sent word to them through his messengers again and again, because he had pity on his people and on his dwelling place. 16 But they mocked God's messengers, despised his words and scoffed at his prophets until the wrath of the LORD was aroused against his people and there was no remedy.

    Psalm 95:
    6 Come, let us bow down in worship,
    let us kneel before the LORD our Maker;
    7 for he is our God
    and we are the people of his pasture,
    the flock under his care.
    Today, if you hear his voice,
    8 do not harden your hearts as you did at Meribah, [Meribah means quarreling .]
    as you did that day at Massah [Massah means testing .] in the desert,
    9 where your fathers tested and tried me,
    though they had seen what I did.
    10 For forty years I was angry with that generation;
    I said, "They are a people whose hearts go astray,
    and they have not known my ways."
    11 So I declared on oath in my anger,
    "They shall never enter my rest."
    Proverbs 28:14
    Blessed is the man who always fears the LORD, but he who hardens his heart falls into trouble.

    Isaiah 6
    Isaiah's Commission
    1 In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of his robe filled the temple. 2 Above him were seraphs, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying. 3 And they were calling to one another:
    "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty;
    the whole earth is full of his glory."
    4 At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook and the temple was filled with smoke.
    5 "Woe to me!" I cried. "I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty."
    6 Then one of the seraphs flew to me with a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar. 7 With it he touched my mouth and said, "See, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for."
    8 Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
    And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"
    9 He said, "Go and tell this people:
    " 'Be ever hearing, but never understanding;
    be ever seeing, but never perceiving.'
    10 Make the heart of this people calloused;
    make their ears dull
    and close their eyes. [a]
    Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
    hear with their ears,
    understand with their hearts,
    and turn and be healed."
    11 Then I said, "For how long, O Lord?"
    And he answered:
    "Until the cities lie ruined
    and without inhabitant,
    until the houses are left deserted
    and the fields ruined and ravaged,
    12 until the LORD has sent everyone far away
    and the land is utterly forsaken.
    13 And though a tenth remains in the land,
    it will again be laid waste.
    But as the terebinth and oak
    leave stumps when they are cut down,
    so the holy seed will be the stump in the land."
    Footnotes:

    a. Isaiah 6:10 Hebrew; Septuagint 'You will be ever hearing, but never understanding; / you will be ever seeing, but never perceiving.' / 10 This people's heart has become calloused; / they hardly hear with their ears, / and they have closed their eyes

    Hebrews 3
    Warning Against Unbelief
    7So, as the Holy Spirit says:
    "Today, if you hear his voice,
    8do not harden your hearts
    as you did in the rebellion,
    during the time of testing in the desert,
    9where your fathers tested and tried me
    and for forty years saw what I did.
    10That is why I was angry with that generation,
    and I said, 'Their hearts are always going astray,
    and they have not known my ways.'
    11So I declared on oath in my anger,
    'They shall never enter my rest.' "[Psalm 95:7-11]
    12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. 15As has just been said:
    "Today, if you hear his voice,
    do not harden your hearts
    as you did in the rebellion."[ Psalm 95:7,8]
    16Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed[Or disbelieved]? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

    Romans 11:
    17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
    22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

    John 15:
    5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. 8This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
    9"As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love. 11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. 14You are my friends if you do what I command. 15I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. 17This is my command: Love each other.
     
    #1 psalms109:31, Nov 3, 2007
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  2. psalms109:31

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    Envy

    Romans11:
    11Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!
    13I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry 14in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.
     
  3. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    There are passages in Exodus in which it is written that God hardened Pharoah's heart. There are also passages which say Pharoah hardened his own heart.

    Regarding Isaiah 6, John writes in John 12:36 and following, that the rebellious Hebrews to whom Isaiah preached would not believe because they could not believe. John goes on to say that it is because God blinded them and hardened them. He quotes specifically from Isaiah 6.

    It is as if God told Isaiah, you preach to them, but it won't do any good. They won't listen because their eyes are blinded, their hearts hardened and their understanding clouded. God seems to be saying, they're that way because I blinded, hardened and clouded them.

    I don't have a good answer to the OP, since blinding and hardening seem to be both the work of God and of man. It does seem, however, that there is a point beyond which God quits stirring the hearts of rebellious people. In the mind of God, there seems to be a point at which he says, "that's it." Further preaching is ineffectual, serving mainly to leave them without excuse.

    So in my view, the harshest judgment God can pronounce on someone is to leave them alone.

    A pastor of mine explained it this way: God has declared the terms and circumstances under which hardening and blinding take place. It's not our job to figure out when that is. It's our job to be Isaiah, and preach because he said to.
     
  4. webdog

    webdog
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    I read that God hardens hearts by putting truth in front of them. He knew the hearts of the Israelites, and knew they would reject what their pre packeaged view of what the Messiah would be. In essence, He "hardened their hearts" by not giving them what they were looking for.

    This is like saying "I will make you mad" and then kick you in the leg. I didn't say "I will kick you in the leg", but it was that action that lead to my declaration.
     
  5. skypair

    skypair
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    Tom,

    It leads me to believe that the "fulness of the Gentiles come in" is when they are divided -- either hardened or saved. The gospel has been around a long time here in America and longer in Europe. It has reached most places in the world that haven't been "stonewalled" against it by their sacral (religious-state) governments. Where is there still the place that isn't hardened against the gospel yet?

    skypair
     
  6. psalms109:31

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    go a little further

    John 12:42Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not confess their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; 43for they loved praise from men more than praise from God.

    This is why God blinded them.

    We must come to Jesus as a child not as the wise and the learned. Here is why our God blinded them.

    Matthew 11:25
    At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

    God hardened the heart of phaorah for the same reason.

    1 Samuel 6:
    6 Why do you harden your hearts as the Egyptians and Pharaoh did? When he [That is, God] treated them harshly, did they not send the Israelites out so they could go on their way?

    God blinded Israel, but they hardened thier own hearts.

    Hebrews 3
    Warning Against Unbelief
    7So, as the Holy Spirit says:
    "Today, if you hear his voice,
    8do not harden your hearts
    as you did in the rebellion,
    during the time of testing in the desert,
    9where your fathers tested and tried me
    and for forty years saw what I did.
    10That is why I was angry with that generation,
    and I said, 'Their hearts are always going astray,
    and they have not known my ways.'
    11So I declared on oath in my anger,
    'They shall never enter my rest.' "[Psalm 95:7-11]
    12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. 15As has just been said:
    "Today, if you hear his voice,
    do not harden your hearts
    as you did in the rebellion."[ Psalm 95:7,8]
    16Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed[Or disbelieved]? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

    2 Corinthians 3:16
    But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

    as a child, born again. One is not a Jew if He is one on the outside, but if they are in the inside and only Jesus can change you.

    Romans11:15For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
     
  7. psalms109:31

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    Dio not harden your heart

    Hebrews 3:
    12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.
     
  8. psalms109:31

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    What is Jesus doing here, He is reveasling thier problem. You can not do any thing if you don't know your problem. So what was thier response.

    What is stopping you from confessing your faith.

    Matthew 23:37
    "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
     
  9. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    I wouldn't put it exactly the way you did, but I think you're on to something here.

    The same gospel that, the same preaching that some willingly believe also produces hardening in others. So, in a sense, God hardened hearts by sending the gospel to them.

    I read somewhere that the same sun that melts butter hardens clay. Maybe it's like that with the gospel.
     
  10. Rippon

    Rippon
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    Tom , what you said reminds me of 2 Corinthians 2:15,16 : Our lives are a Christ-like fragrance rising up to God . but this fragrance is perceived differently by those who are being saved and by those who are perishing . To those who are perishing , we are a dreadful smell of death and doom . But to those who are being saved , we are a life-giving perfume . And who is adequate for such a task as this ? ( NLTse )

    The Gospel has two different results . It hardens some for their condemnation , and softens the hearts of others so that they will be ripe for their reception of saving truths .
     
  11. psalms109:31

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    Reconciliation

    Jesus brought reconciliation to the world, but even in Paul's day he had to deal with people misunderstanding his teaching as Dear Peter warns us about.

    Paul had to tell the people that God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, and then tell them that he wasn't lying.

    People have hardened thier hearts back then, they will today to this message.

    To this day He has not removed the veil, only when we turn to Jesus even if the message is foolishness, because through this message people are being saved by it.

    Only when we turn to Jesus this veil is removed, which is the circumcism of our heart.
     
    #11 psalms109:31, Nov 8, 2007
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  12. Rippon

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    Hey Ps. , in what way do you understand Christ bringing reconciliation to the world ? Has every single individual who has and shall live receive reconciliation with the Lord ? Does every single person have none of ther sins counted against them ? Or are His people -- the elect , (scattered throughout the world among the Gentiles ) in view in Romans 11:15 and 2 Corinthians 5:19 ? Answer : There is nonimputation of the sins of His people only . The non-elect will indeed have their sins counted against them . They are not at peace with God which is the core meaning of reconciliation . The breach between the non-elect and God has not , and shall not be recovered .
     
  13. psalms109:31

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    2 Corinthians 5:16
    So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21God made him who had no sin to be sin[Or be a sin offering] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

    Romans 10:
    14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"[Isaiah 52:7]

    The elect is simple and they who God throughout scripture shows who has chosen those who are in Christ.

    Those who do not trust in thier own understand but trust in the Lord.

    The elect chosen like Israel have been disappointed as the scripture clearly shows, but those who trust in the name of the Lord will never be disappointed.
     
    #13 psalms109:31, Nov 8, 2007
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  14. Rippon

    Rippon
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    Care to answer the questions I posed for you Ps. ?
     
  15. psalms109:31

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    I did

    The scripture teaches only the meek and humble who trust in the Lord are promised salvation through Jesus Christ.

    Being elect doesn't prove you are going to be saved when the elect can be cut out for unbelief.

    So trusting in the Lord not in your election is making your election sure. Only believers will be reconciled for the scripture teaches that believers will be saved, not might or maybe, but will be saved.
     

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