Who is driving the bus?

Are you ignoring my questions James?

 

Are you really saying that since God put King James in authority and the KJV was commissioned under King James it is the only legitimate English Bible?!?

 

James Newman said:

Ok, so now we can all agree that we are our own authority in such matters.

 

We have it and have had it all along, the Traditional Texts of the original languages known today as the Textus Receptus and the the Masoretic Text. These traditional texts had their roots in the same Church tradition (before the apostasy of Rome) which confirmed the 66 books of the Canon.

The critical texts are what many/most (somewhere in between) consider the latest revision to these Traditional Texts. Personally I disagree but that is my choice and I’m not going to issue a rant against those who believe otherwise nor separate from them concerning this issue.

Yes, 21st Century Standard English is our common tongue.

As in ages past when the current and popular Bible(s) wree considered to have become outdated, such as in 1604, gifted and educated scholars corroborated to produce a Bible in the contemporary grammar, syntax and vocabulary of the day. Nothing has changed in that regard except the details of the original language text which is IMO the real issue.

Also, you and I and everyone else here are educated in one of the most difficult languages on earth. In addition the very fact that we are conversing here on the internet is a miracle (humanly speaking) of communications and education seeing the skills that we have had to acquire to be able to do this. It is not a huge request that anyone learn Greek and Hebrew to the extent of their ability.

For a 17th century individual this was for the most part impossible.
For us, well, we can learn these languages at home via the WWW.
My skills in these languages are due to formal education, but anyone who is willing can take as much time as necessary through self-study in myriads of electronic libraries on the world wide web to educate themselves.

I will certainly admit that there have been abuses of translations and no small degree of confusion out there in the “Christian marketplace”. That is why it is so important and helpful that there are boards like the BB to help us along the way and to search the scriptures daily to test those things we are being told, many of which are incredibly and bizarre.

HankD

 

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Member # 7160

posted September 24, 2004 05:04 AM
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James,

Does this


quote:
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Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
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that you think "modern versions" work together for good?

If so, how can you oppose them?
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No, they don't seem to be, as they are the cause for confusion, division and liberalism in the churches today. They have altered the scriptures and this is how and why I can and do oppose them.


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

The decree of King James concerning the "Authorised Version to be read in the Churches (of England) included the apocrypha and the Common Book of Prayer. Do you accept these as well or do you pick and choose only those things which please you concerning King James' authority?

HankD

 

Michelle it's good to hear from you again.

These things have been with the Church since day 1 as Jesus predicted in Matthew 13 in the parable of the wheat and the tares (weeds). Please note that these things abounded long before 1881 when the Critical Text came into being.

HankD

 

James Newman:Ok, so now we can all agree that we are our own authority in such matters.

That's the way God made us.


You guys say that you believe the word of God, but rather than submit to it, you continually look for the REAL word of God.

Actually, we're not looking for anything...we have God's word, in both older and newer versions, as well as in the original languages as close as God chooses for us to have it.


If you really believed the word, you wouldn't think so lightly of rewriting the bible every 2 days.

If you really UNDERSTOOD God's word, you wouldn't try to limit Him to just one 400-yr-old version which has been passed by language-wise by the many changes in English over those 400 years. GOD isn't thus limited, and WE shouldn't be, either.

I would not even presume to take the responsibility of translating the bible upon myself.

Neither would I, because God didn't make me into a Greek- or Hebrew-language scholar. But if NNE had translated it, how could anyone else have read it?


I fear God. When he gives us a warning, we are meant to take these warnings to heart, and believe them, and obey them. Do you believe this passage is a warning to you? Or you are so sure of your own knowledge and intelligence that you would rather risk the plagues than have to submit yourself to someone elses (in your opinion inferior) translation of the word?

Nowhere does GOD tell us to do any such thing. And, HOW DO YOU KNOW how correct the KJV is? We've shown you at least one clear booboo in it(Easter, Acts 12:4), and if necessary we can show you a bunch more.

And if you submit to only the KJV, you're actually submitting to a group of Anglican baby-sprinklers.

We are in the last days, Laodicea. Laodicea essentially means 'rights of the people' doesn't it?

SIR, THAT "CHURCH AGE" DOCTRINE IS FALSE AS ANYTHING CAN BE! IT WAS PUSHED BY A CHARLATAN NAMED WILLIAM BRANHAM, AND IS PROVEN PATENTLY FALSE BY HISTORY!!! But apparently, you're in one false doctrine...KJVO...and false breeds false. No surprise that you believe TWO false doctrines.


You all have the right to read any version you want, you can believe any trash you want to believe. I suppose you even have the right to retranslate the bible over and over until you feel it suits you. And if I stand up and say different, I'll be stoned, because I'm violating your rights. That doesn't mean I am supposed to keep quiet, rather I will take a stoning. I have the same rights.

But more importantly, you have some WRONGS: KJVO and "Church Age". While I won't stone you for that, I won't hesitate to pronounce them PROVEN WRONG.

You guys are all correct, every bible version that ever fell out of a printing press came from God. God is in control of everything. That is not the point. The bible says in the last days, there will be many false Christs. Are these from God? Yes. Are you supposed to follow them? No.[/i]

No, they are NOT FROM GOD! He ALLOWS them...to come from the DEVIL! As I was saying, if you UNDERSTOOD the WOG...


If God delivered us a bible by the order of a king, surely that must hold more authority than the latest scribble from the seminary translation club.

Why? The USA prohibits having a royal govt.

1 Kings 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

Try reading the entire chapter instead of ripping a verse out of context! This verse concerned AHAB, the most evil king Israel ever had...as the REST of the chapter proves!

The Lord can certainly allow (ordain?) many bibles to vomitted into existence, that does not mean that His will is for us to comb through them picking out the verses we like in this one, and going to this other version for the next verse. That falls right in line with heaping to ourselves teachers (is that scratching I hear?)

Actually, it lines up with what the AV translators said, to-wit:

Therfore as S. Augustine saith, that varietie of Translations is profitable for the finding out of the sense of the Scriptures: so diuersitie of signification and sense in the margine, where the text is not so cleare, must needes doe good, yea, is necessary, as we are perswaded.

Now to the later we answere; that wee doe not deny, nay wee affirme and auow, that the very meanest translation of the Bible in English, set foorth by men of our profession (for wee haue seene none of theirs of the whole Bible as yet) containeth the word of God, nay, is the word of God. (Preface, "from the Translators to the Reader", AV 1611)

The Highest Authority (as if I should have to explain myself) is the Word of God. If the Word of God says that God is in control of Kings, then God was in control of King James when he authorized the KJV.

But does KJ say that? And all KJ did was to AUTHORIZE the translators to go ahead...and KJ HATED the GENEVA BIBLE. Now, is the GB a valid translation or not?


God may be in control of everyone who puts out a new bible version, but that person has no authority of their own. If the claim to be doing it by God's authority, they will have to prove that one from scripture. A King, on the other hand, does not need to prove anything to us. We are subject to him, not the other way around. I know what your thinking, 'I'm not subject to King James. I'm an American, and we don't bow down to anyone!(rights of the people)" Great, you do what you want, I'm going to follow God.

Did GOD tell you to follow the long-dead KING JAMES?

You may ask, 'James, what is the point of this?' The point is simple. God gave you everything you needed to follow Him and know His will when He provided you a Bible in English and made it accessible to the common man (thats you, by the way.)

And this is the SAME THING He's done EVER SINCE He first presented His word in English. NO two English BVs are alike. Now, did GOD allow this, or not? HOW CAN YOU PROVE that ONLY THE KJV is valid?


The Lord is coming back soon, and He wants us living for Him and working for the rewards He promised us. This whole controversey is really just one more way for Satan to keep us busy arguing endlessly with each other, rather than going out and doing God's work bringing souls to Christ and exhorting brethren to live holy. God wants us to visit the widows and the orphans, He wants us to preach the gospel, He wants us to keep His commandments.

While the devil wants just the opposite! he knows he can't take anyone's salvation, but he's a lot smarter than we often give him credit for. He creates false doctrines such as KJVO & deceives Christians into believing them. The KJVO myth was started by a known cult official and nurtured by several dishonest authors; it was tainted and corrupt from the gitgo. How can YOU, as a CHRISTIAN, believe any codwallop started by NON-CHRISTIANS?

Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

If you say you must keep translating the bible because you love the Lord, where is that commandment? Surely He told us what he wanted us to be doing in His word...

You're forgetting that the AV 1611 was as modern an English writing as there was in 1611. THOSE people had God's word in THEIR language style as God provided. Are you saying He retired in 1611? Are you trying to confine Him to YOUR beliefs? What's to prevent GOD from providing us with HIS word in OUR language?

Here's John 3:16 from the first-known written Scriptures in English, C.995 AD:

?God lufode middan-eard swa, dat he seade his an-cennedan sunu, dat nan ne forweorde de on hine gely ac habbe dat ece lif."

Yes, that's proto-ENGLISH! it was perfectly understandable to those who could read at the time & perfectly understandable to those who heard it read aloud. By whose authority was this reading changed?

Sorry, James, you've tried to build a house with no foundation. Without SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT, the KJVO myth was stillborn, and all this is moot...you're simply trying to bring a doorknob to life. But I thought I'd try to make you aware of just how lifeless the KJVO myth is anyway, even w/o the lack of Scriptural support thing.

 

James said "The point is simple. God gave you everything you needed to follow Him and know His will when He provided you a Bible in English and made it accessible to the common man (thats you, by the way.)"

So why not accept the Geneva as inerrant and claim that the KJV was wrong for deviating from it? Your whole argument is arbitrarily applied to your version of preference, and can be just as easily (and defendably) applied to any version. So by what authority do you claim it should be applied to the KJV exclusively?

 

That seems to be the point of the verse LOL

We don't always know exactly why God is doing what he is doing. James says "ALL THINGS"

 

Michelle:No, they don't seem to be, as they are the cause for confusion

No, Michelle...Confusion is caused by the introduction of such false doctrines as KJVO and "Church Age" into a congregation.


, division

Again, that's a KJVO thing.


and liberalism in the churches today.

No, that's caused by the mindset of the people involved, regardless of BV or language.


They have altered the scriptures and this is how and why I can and do oppose them.

You've said this umpteen times WITHOUT PROVIDING ONE JOT OR TITTLE OF "PROOF". Just saying, "The KJV reads differently" won't work.

You say you're not KJVO...In that case, what other specific version(s) do you recommend?

And I still await your pasting any post of mine from any board where I say I'm a "versionolator". Until you can either do that or admit you were wrong, you're living a lie. Same with your not being KJVO. You don't seem to be on very friendly terms with the truth on that one, either.

Once I understand, I'll understand.

 

Why not go back even farther, Natters? God has given us His word in over 5K Greek mss, the Septuagint, and umpteen editions of the Masoretic Texts. He's given us lexicons, dictionaries, and cross-reference works. He's made it all easily accessible on the Net.Why do we need ANY of these English translations? They've ALL altered God's words from the oldest-known copies in the original languages.

 

So God had to wait 1600 years before He got the right king to "authorize" the right Bible? Wow, what about all those poor people before King James? They had to go without the only true word of God!

Also, you are implying those who do not agree with you are not following God. That's a pretty serious accusation. I hope you think you can defend that before God.

 

Food for thought.

 

I'll buy you a dictionary brother. </font>[/QUOTE]I have plenty of dictionaries, Brother. Don't think I need any more....I even have the one pushed off by the KJVO's, which seems sort of ludicrous since God would want us to be able to understand what he says clearly without help.

AVL1984

 

We have been dealing with one in the thread entitled 'Is Hell the same as the Lake of Fire?' </font>[/QUOTE]I don't see any false doctrine. I see your assertions of false doctrine in that thread, but no proof.

AVL1984

 

Yes, C4K, but I see that he didn't acknowledge that Constantine (An Emporer...KING if you will) commissioned 50 Bibles, too. Wow. Wasn't the Bishops Bible or one of the predecessors of the KJV also commissioned by a the King? Hmmm....somethings fishy with James' statement.

AVL1984