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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Salty, Nov 22, 2009.
from all about Baptists
Should be Jesus.
Then maybe next the pastor. The deacons are servants. Well, so should the pastor be but he is the leader after Christ.
Bishop, pastor (presbyter), deacon
1 Ti 3:1-13
I am of the school of thought that Deacons are NOT a leadership roll at all. They are simply assistants to help the pastor in the physicial needs of the congergation.
In our church, the pastors (9 of them and 2 pastoral interns) pretty much run the church as elders and the deacons take care of deaconing.
9 pastors ! Why don't you send one up here on TDY for about 6 months. We sure could use some help. And he wouldn't ( it would be a he wouldn't it :laugh even have to get another drivers license. Contrary to popular belief Upstate NY is actually in the same state as NY City.
I think you linked the wrong article. This is probably the one you want and I highlighted their "bottom line paragraph".
Personally, I think neither is in charge. I don't think churches have to be run with hierarchies. Pastors have their roles. Deacons have their roles. Both must submit to God, each other and the congregations that voted them in (if they are congregationalist).
In a well functioning church, the question of who is in charge does not need to be asked because no one person or group of people feel that their role is one of power that needs to be exerted over others. Instead they see their roles as servants.
In terms of the overall vision and direction of the church, that is often a pastor's role in collaboration with the deacon board. Any leader who does not collaborate with the others leading around him are not good leaders.
Never heard the likes of 9 pastors in a single church. That is foolish. Time to split up and form new churches.
In my terms, as pastor, I handled the spiritual things. The deacons and members "owned" the church and they controlled the finances........they also hired or fired me!
Gold Dragon wrote: "Personally, I think neither is in charge. I don't think churches have to be run with hierarchies. Pastors have their roles. Deacons have their roles. Both must submit to God, each other and the congregations that voted them in (if they are congregationalist)."
The various responsibilities and authority of the pastor and deacons should be defined in the church's constitution and Bylaws. The constitution and bylaws are the procedures agreed upon bu pastors, deacons, and members. If the procedures are not adequately defined in these documents, then the documents need to be updated.
Since when did the body of deacons become a "deacon board?"
Way it should be! I agree..........NINE pastors!!!????
The senior pastor is, biblically, the undershepherd of Christ who sets the vision and direction of the local church he serves. The deacons, while they can be consulted for help, are to support that pastor's vision.
But it's COLD up there, isn't it?? That wouldn't work for my particular pastor. LOL Not sure about the others.
well be careful now you criticize others. The cheuch where I serve has 10+ pastoral level ministers. Granted we are a large church, but we also have a strategic plan to start new churches regularly. It might not everyone's cup of tea but it is what we believe we are called to do.
Well, actually we ARE starting a new church.
We're a church of about 800 people. Our pastor says that he finds one pastor per 100 people makes a pastoral team that can meet the needs of the congregation. I know we're over that but as I said, we're looking to plant a new church at this time because we're able to and God called my husband to do it.
OK - so for the pastors, they don't all have the same job. What we have is:
Senior pastor does most of the preaching, is "head" of stuff. He's been here since '68.
Senior associate pastor is second in preaching, leads the ladies' Bible class, is in charge of all employees, does a ton of teaching.
Missions pastor is in charge of the physical church (the grounds, the building, etc.) since he was in construction before. He served as our general contractor for our last building project that ended up being done for about 1/3 of the potential cost. Additionally, he's in charge of all of the missionaries we support since most of them that we support are fully supported by us. He's kind of the "mission board" for us. Finally, he leads all of the missions trips and will be going to Cuba, Estonia and Nicaragua over the next 6 months to do actual missions work (teaching pastors in Estonia, building a Bible college in Cuba and teaching teachers in Nicaragua).
Administrative pastor is in charge of all of the finances of the church along with his staff. He makes sure everything is kosher financially and it's really very much a full-time job with a budget of over $2 million. He also teaches classes on finances as well as leads small groups.
Family life pastor was formerly our youth pastor but has now moved on to doing counseling for families. Surprisingly or not, this is a full time position. He's really busy and in his spare time, he plans events for families in the church. For example, he planned a couples dinner, family pumpkin picking, seminars on parenting, etc.
Senior youth pastor does just what his title says. We have a youth group of over 150 kids and he's in charge of this.
Assistant youth pastor runs the junior high youth group and the college ministry. He's our newest pastor.
Children's pastor is just that - in charge of all children's ministry including Sunday school and weekly programs (Pioneer Girls and Boy's Brigade).
Recovery pastor is in charge of our ever growing recovery ministry, singles ministry and such. I don't know how it is there but around here in NY, we need lots of help for those who are recovering from substance abuse, physical abuse, divorce, the death of a loved one, etc. His wife runs the women's recovery group.
My husband was the worship pastor but now he's more of the "church plant" pastor. He's the "man" who's running this church plant. Additionally, because of his past life as a computer engineer/programmer in the audio industry, he's in charge of all things technical in the church from the website, to managing the computer systems, to the sound system and the electric in the church.
Guess what? That's 10 pastors. LOL - I forgot to add in the junior high pastor who's new (he was hired on after he graduated from college in June).
The two pastoral interns are in training and are actually not employed by the church. One has been working with us a bit on publicity and marketing since that was his former business and with the new church plant and increasing our website, his help is really valuable. Of course he's learning to do this for a church rather than a newspaper so there's a lot for him to learn.
So, there are a lot of pastors, but not one of them is ever not working. they all have their places and keep super busy.
One more pastor we most likely could use would be a deaf pastor. We have a large deaf congregation and ministry.
That's how it is here~~which means the deacons run the show since they are the employers.
Since when there were more than one deacon.
Whenever there are two or more, someone needs to be the leader.
Can you image a church with seven deacons, and each decides to do his own thing. NO, NO, NO, you need to have a direction. Could be that Leadership might be the incorrect term, but definitely there needs to be coordinated direction. But a good leader will not be a dictator either.
As brought up in another thread, and I will transpose here, a board of deacons is not un-biblical, nor is the board a required asset of a church. Lets just look at II Cor - " let all things be done decently and in order"
I have known a few deaf pastors, but they were supposedly ministering to hearing congregations.
We have less than 50 in attendance and have about 5 deacons, with 4 of them married couples (hey it's ABC remember:smilewinkgrin, so it's a board. I don't know if there is a "senior" deke or not, I think one dude kinda takes charge.