Who is Really to blame

Discussion in 'Politics' started by freeatlast, May 31, 2012.

  1. freeatlast

    freeatlast
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    As we enter into the last part of our election year and the office of President is a top conversation with accusations flying from both sides and an enormous amount of blame being levied at the current President one has to ask really who's fault is it for the condition we are in?
    While President Obama blames the last President and many current conservatives blame this president the plain factual truth is it is our fault. The people have put these people into office and no President or congress person could ever get into office without the Christian vote. The plain truth is that Christians are putting these people into office and we are getting what we deserve. God calls it reaping what you sow.

    While I admit that I would like to see this current President removed from office there is a greater need that I am afraid we have also failed to see. That is the congress and the need to vote these long term people out and replace them with people who will do the desires of the people instead of enriching themselves at the expense of the people.
    I in fact believe that who goes to congress is way more important then who is elected to the office of President, but because we who claim to be Christians are not paying attention the current congress will remain very close to its current deadlocked situation. Again we the people and in this case the church are responsible and we will reap what we have sowed.
     
  2. targus

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    I am only responsible for my vote - not the election results.

    I talk with people about the issues in an attempt to persuade them - but in the end they are responsible for their own vote.
     
  3. Mexdeaf

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    Pastors and church members who are focused more upon making their lives comfortable are more to be blamed than Congress, the USSC, or the President in my not so humble opinion.
     
  4. InTheLight

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    I challenge this statement. How do you know this? Are you suggesting that more than 50% of this nation are born-again Christians? Please post some polling data that shows the born-again Christian voting bloc put Obama in the White House in 2008.
     
  5. Amy.G

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    I didn't vote for Obummer. Soooo..how am I at fault for him being elected?


    Oh yeah, it's always the woman's fault. (ask any wife or mother) :smilewinkgrin:
     
  6. Don

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    Thought it was my fault; at least, that's what my wife says.

    (don't tell her I wrote that)
     
  7. Don

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    What's your plan for doing something about it?
     
  8. freeatlast

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    I just did it.
     
  9. freeatlast

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    As usual you need to read the OP. It does not take 50% of the voting block to be Christian. There is always a division in an election even within the secular voters, and the Christian's are what are left to swing it either way. I assure you that there was a great many Christian who voted for this current President in the last election and many are right here on this board if they would admit it and some have. Not only that even as bad as this man has proven himself there are still many Christians who will vote for him again. I hope you do not think there are no any party line straight ticket Democrats who are Christians.
     
  10. billwald

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    The 2nd American Revolution (Constitutional Convention) and the 3rd American Revolution (Lincoln's War) gave us a legal system which logically resulted in our present mess.

    Considering our sin nature, how could it have gone any other way? The US government is designed for a population which "loves God and neighbor" and in which human greed and the love of material goods and political power is not the primary factor.
     
  11. just-want-peace

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    Now this statement by BW is one with which I agree totally!!!:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
  12. Don

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    Your plan is to go out on a message board and write a message to a limited group of strangers that something needs to be done?

    ---edited to add:
    What about your church? What about your community? What are you/what should we be doing in those areas?
     
  13. AresMan

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    Due to the democratic collectivist mindset the Christians claim to despise but need to get out from under. :/

    It's also the same mindset the blames Christians who exercise their conscience not to vote for an evil person because other people vote for a greater evil.
     
  14. saturneptune

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    I do not know if there is an easy answer, as corruption and greed in government is institutionalized. The only way to change Congress and the President is either radical change in the leadership of the Democratic and Republican Party, given to people whose purpose is to elect leaders who will serve and not steal. Elect people who will govern by the Constitution. Short of that, we would have to dismantle the two present parties and start over.

    It is really sad. There are 300 million Americans, and collectively, we come up with these two to pick between to lead our nation. In the final analysis, the President and Congress are a reflection of us. To change a party, you cannot wait until the primaries. For example, in 2008, it was a known fact that Republicans had nominated a liberal, connsumate politican for President. The effort to change the party should have started the day after election day. Obviously nothing was learned. McCain to Romney is not what I would call a leap forward, but Reagan to McCain is light years backwards.

    When the primaries start, it is too late. The next stop for seeing if we learned anything is now 2016.

    Change will take time. It takes effort. We the people can not be pew sitters and expect anything to be different next time.

    As far as the 537 crooks in office now (535 in Congress, President and VP), everyone of them should be investigated with a microscope. Charges should be brought for corruption, theft, economic terrorism, treason, and bribery. Upon conviction, they would be thrown into a penal colony breaking rocks and working in chain gangs. The warden would be the famous AZ sheriff.

    I argued on this board and every other station in life against Romney as long as the primaries lasted. While I am not happy, a vote for Romney is slightly better than a vote for Obama for reelection.
     
  15. InTheLight

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    Nope. Moderates decide each election.


    Please post some polling data that shows the born-again Christian voting bloc put Obama in the White House in 2008.
     
  16. saturneptune

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    I have no polling data, just an observation. In 1976, when President Carter defeated President Ford in a close election, born-again Christian votes in the South are said to have made the difference in carrying some southern states that usually go Republican.

    In 1980, Reagan crushed Carter in the south and took back all of the southern states. I really do not know if born-again Christians in the south changed their minds because of policy, or just the total disorganization of the Carter administration. I voted for Carter in 76, then switched to Reagan in 80, mainly because of the economy and his inability to deal with the hostage situation.
     
  17. AresMan

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    This statement sounds rather Reformed. :thumbs:

    Sin nature dictates that the balance of power must be distributed as thinly as possible to prevent tyranny. Monarchy, oligarchy, and democracy all permit granting power to some to exploit others against their will. Power must be checked and balanced such that the individual's rights to life, liberty, and property are upheld above all without discrimination. No one should have the power to legislate or vote away these rights from anyone else.
     
  18. Don

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    Wasn't looking for an easy answer; as you say, there isn't one. But I was looking for something more than "I'm going to post my opinion on a message board."

    Everyone can do a bit of something. For example, voting records are easily obtainable; find the records for the senators/representatives for your state/locality. Highlight their names and how they voted for the different issues. Ask permission of the pastor/deacons/whatever to hang it on the bulletin board at church. Hang it on the bulletin board at the local community center. Maybe there's a local cafe or some other place where people hang out; get permission and hang it there. If someone tears it down, get another copy and re-hang it.

    Get into discussions with church members. Not everyone's going to feel the same way, and not everyone's going to be comfortable doing things the same way. Find strengths, and capitalize on them. Some folks are a-okay standing on street corners and shouting; give them stuff to shout about. Some folks are better making phone calls; give them something to call people about. Some folks may be good at making websites, or presentations; give them the basic info and ask them to work their magic.

    When was the last time you (not you specifically, SN; using "you" generically here) called your senators/representatives? Or sent them letters? Or created a poll and sought signatures, to be sent to your senators/representatives?

    Have you checked with your local political party of choice HQ and volunteered to assist?

    Have you considered running for office yourself?

    These are all actionable things, and can be done individually or as a whole. They can be done by each and every one of us. And there's more than just this; these are just what I've thought of off the top of my head. The point being, there are things that can be done to help people be aware of what's going on. And yes, providing actual information on a message board is one of those things, too (as opposed to simply espousing our opinion; give me facts, figures, data; not just what you personally think about something. Give me something that actually supports why you think the way you do, and I might find myself changing my way of thinking because you've given me something I can't argue with).

    But give me something more than the plan is to publish a personal opinion anonymously on a message board. Because that just looks like complaining and whining...but that's my personal opinion. :)
     
    #18 Don, Jun 1, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2012
  19. saturneptune

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    I did not take your remarks personally, and basically agree with you. I do not expect anyone to agree or disagree with me. Basically, I am just looking for a well intentioned post. Also, although next to impossible on this board I try to avoid the words "I" and "you."

    As far as personal involvement instead of the overall things to do, I will be glad to recount mine. I had joined the Constitution Party two years ago over disguist of the Republican Party. I got involved with the state delegation and was actually selected as an elected delegate to the national convention in Nashville in April to select a Presidential and Vice Presidential candidate. Six others were going with me. We had to pay our way, travel and registration fee, which amounted to about $1000. To make a long story short, a few days before the Convention, I found out some of the six were not going. Once there, I ended up being the only delegate from Kentucky. The delegates present from other states seemed more interested in socializing and having a party than encouraging everyone to get out and vote for our candidate (Virgil Goode, former US House Congressman VA, 5th district) for President. Most did not seem interested nor did they have the drive to make this a crusade, so to speak. Driving back home, the more I thought about the whole incident, the more I decided I wanted nothing to do with it. No wonder we are a third party. If you do not believe in yourself enough to show others and tell others about your cause, why should they listen. The platform is quite simple, govern by the Constitution, and live by Judeo-Christian ethics.

    Anyway, once back, I switched back to the Republican Party. As unhappy as I am/was with Romney's religious beliefs, and his record as governor of Mass., I decided by some small margin that it was better to vote for him than help reelect Obama. It is certainly not a vote I can embrace or am proud of, but it is what I am going to do.

    I guess the major thing that changed in me is that we must work internally within both parties, especially the Republican, and well before primaries get here, (now is the time to start for 2016). I would have thought we would have learned from our 2008 nominee, or for that matter, the pattern since Reagan left. I have no idea if Romney is going to win or not. If he does not, I pray we have learned our lesson and pick a conservative in 2016 with some moral backbone.

    You asked about writing letters to Congressmen. I have for many, many years. My favorite is letters to the editor, pinging local government.

    Another person who is really involved, more than me, is Salty. He works with the New York fusion party, a concept where one of the two major parties can fuse with a third party, say Conservative Party, and run one candidate. It is an interesting concept, espeically at primary time.

    Are you for open or closed primaries? Here in Kentucky, we still have closed primaries. In Wisconsin where my son lives, voters can cross over party lines. Last week in our Presidential primary, on the Democratic side, Obama beat uncommitted by 57 to 43 percent. However, in twelve of the thirteen west Kentucky counties, where I live, Obama lost to uncommitted, in some cases 65-35. Needless to say, Obama will not be receiving our electoral votes.

    Again, my apologies for not answering your question on a personal involvement level. You are correct. Anyone can give opinions. It reminds me of pew sitters at church that never do anything else but attend pot lucks and gossip. Thanks for the post.
     
  20. billwald

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    Until recently I think 51% of Americans were regenerated Christians. The change started with the Vietnam War.
     

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