Who is Sanctified in Hebrews 10:29?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Darrell C, Feb 24, 2016.

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Who is sanctified in Hebrews 10:29?

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  1. Believers who sin.

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  2. Christ.

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  1. Darrell C

    Darrell C
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    Okay, simple question, here is the verse:


    Hebrews 10:29

    King James Version (KJV)


    29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


    And just as a hint as to my own view, I suggest that Christ is the One in view.

    The reason being that the Writer has already spoken of the condition of the believer sanctified by the Sacrifice of Christ here...


    Hebrews 10:10-14


    King James Version (KJV)


    10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

    11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

    12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

    13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

    14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


    (and it is already known that "for all" is an insertion).

    We create a conflict in the Writer's teaching if we say that believers have received remission of sins in completion for ever when we are sanctified by the Sacrifice of Christ, and say that believers are not forgiven their sins if they continue to sin.

    Secondly, we say that believers commit the sins specifically referred to by the Writer:

    Hebrews 10:29

    King James Version (KJV)

    29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


    That is, we have believers being warned not to tread under foot the Son of God, not to count unholy the Sacrifice of Christ, and not to resist the Spirit of Grace.

    Now who does those things? Believers who do not, as the Writer will end this teaching in saying...draw back unto perdition?

    Or Jews who remain under the Law?


    God bless.
     
  2. vooks

    vooks
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    The sanctified in that verse is the apostate who is also in danger of judgement and indignation.

    Adherents of Eternal Security theories are startled at this clear refutation of their theories. If the sanctified man faces judgement and indignation, then believers can lose their salvation. Two attempts to skirt around this 'problem' are;
    1. Claiming that the sanctification in question is not saving sanctification but ceremonial
    2. Claiming that the subject sanctified is Christ!

    I will not only prove that the subject is the apostate but also that it can't possibly be Christ nor the sanctification ceremonial

    The word SANCTIFIED generally means 'set apart' and it is the context that determines how the word is used.

    Hebrews 9,10 sets to demonstrate the superiority of the priesthood of Christ over. Levitical priesthood. Special attention is paid to the soul cleansing power of the blood of Jesus Christ as opposed to animal blood in the OT

    Hebrews 9:13-14 (KJV)
    For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
    .

    Animal blood can't take away sins;
    Hebrews 10:4 (KJV)
    For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins
    .

    The blood is the means of our forgiveness
    Hebrews 10:14 (KJV)
    For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified
    .

    Hebrews 10:22 (KJV)
    Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water
    .


    We see the blood of Jesus sanctifies the sinner. And this is also mentioned elsewhere;

    1 John 1:7 (KJV)
    But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin
    .

    1 Peter 1:2 (KJV)
    Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ
    :

    Finally, getting back to Hebrews,
    Hebrews 13:12 (KJV)
    Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate
    .

    So it is the people who are sanctified by the blood not Jesus Himself.

    Back to the verse, it is IMPOSSIBLE for any honest reader to conclude the apostate and the sanctified being different persons, unless compelled by a prior commitment to some theology/doctrine.

    Nowhere in Hebrews or in the entire scriptures do we find Jesus needing or being sanctified by his own death, nor is there ANY reason for the Holy and Blameless Son of God to need such cleansing.

    The blood of Jesus Christ was shed for sanctification of sinners and not Christ Himself
     
  3. vooks

    vooks
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    Next I want to examine some proof texts appealed by advocates of this theory of Jesus being the sanctified in Hebrews 10:29

    1. Hebrews 2:10 (KJV)
    For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings
    .

    Jesus was perfected through suffering not his blood!
    What suffering?
    Hebrews 2:18 (KJV)
    For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted
    .
    The suffering are temptations

    The immediate not verse actually proves that only the sinners are sanctified
    Hebrews 2:11(KJV)
    For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren
    ,

    2. Hebrews 5:7-9 (KJV)
    Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him
    ;
    Appeal is made to 'being made perfect'. But where is Jesus cleansed/sanctified by his blood?

    Note he 'learnt obedience through the things which he suffered'. The suffering may as in 2:18 a reference to His temptation, agonizing prayers in the garden -v7, or suffering and dying in the cross...or ALL of these but there is zero reference to Jesus being sanctified by His own blood!

    3. Hebrews 9:11-12(KJV)
    But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us
    .
    The point here is just as under the Levitical priesthood the high priest entered the holy of holy with blood both for his sanctification and for the people, Jesus accomplished both of these functions using his blood.

    Let's look at verse 14
    Hebrews 9:14 (KJV)
    How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
    1

    First we saw this means the blood purges/cleanses/sanctifies us,,but for now, focus on 'without spot'. Jesus sacrifice was spotless. This means it did not need any blood including his own to sanctify it. And to further drive this point home,

    Hebrews 7:26-27 (KJV)
    For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself
    .

    Jesus the 'Holy,Harmless, Undefiled,separate from sinners' sacrificed ONCE for the people and not himself. He consecrated himself through a life of perfect submission and obedience including his sacrifice at the Cross

    3. John 17:19 (KJV)
    And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth
    .
    So Jesus sanctified Himself.
    First let us not assume that the context of 17:19 and 10:29 are the same. In Hebrews 10:29, sanctification is cleansing the soul from the guilt and stain of sins while in John 17, sanctification is primarily being set apart from the world, dedicated for a specific mission as in John 10:36.

    Jesus here is praying for his disciples. They have been set apart by their obedience to the Word that Jesus gave them (v6,14). They are set apart (v6) and consecrated for the purpose of bringing the word of truth to the world (v21,23).

    Jesus sanctified himself through continuous obedience to the father's will ending I his death at Calvary (Philippians 2:8). Similarly, the disciples must follow his example of obedience amidst suffering and death as they bring his message to the world.

    Once again, Christ a 'blameless pure lamb without blemish', 'holy,innocent, Undefiled and separated from sinners'(1 Peter 1:19, Heb 9:14,7:26) has no need of being sanctified by his own blood. Jesus blood is holy and it makes holy because it is His blood.

    Last point, logically, if the blood of Jesus sanctified him, it means before it was shed he was not sanctified. If at some point he was not sanctified, the blood in him was up sanctified. How then could un-sanctified blood in him sanctify him? Or if his blood was already sanctified but in his un-sanctified self, how could it be thus? Absurd and totally illogical.

    I find it highly disturbing accepting the possibility of a truly cleansed soul by the blood of Jesus apostasizing and perishing eternally, but this does not come close to the revolting strange interpretation I see here that makes the holy and blameless lamb of God in need of his own blood.
     
  4. Darrell C

    Darrell C
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    This is a marvelous work of pasting together verses, but still brings about conflict in Scripture: you have those who would have to be forgiven in completion coming under eternal judgment because they tread underfoot the Son of God, Count His Sacrifice unholy, and resist the Spirit of Grace.

    No-one denies believers are sanctified by the Blood of Christ, hence the reason for posting this...


    Hebrews 10:10-14


    King James Version (KJV)


    10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

    11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

    12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

    13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

    14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


    In view here are those sanctified by the Blood of Christ.

    And what you will never change is that these are forgiven...for ever.

    That is not the case for those who reject the New Covenant:


    Hebrews 10:26-29


    King James Version (KJV)


    26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

    27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

    28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

    29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


    It is amazing how you can make believers out of those who are specifically said to reject Christ, His Sacrifice, and the Spirit of Grace.

    Thus, to make the One sanctified in v.29 brings about a paradox which you will never reconcile. What you are teaching is in direct conflict with what the Writer is teaching, and you loss of salvation mentality makes this...


    Hebrews 10:39

    King James Version (KJV)


    39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.


    ...untrue. You are teaching believers draw back unto perdition and that is not in the chapter, nor the Book, nor Scripture.

    Do you also see the ones rejecting Moses' Law as believers?


    God bless.
     
  5. Darrell C

    Darrell C
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    So you do think Christ was sanctified? lol

    And that it was because of His obedience to the Cross?

    There's hope for you yet.

    ;)


    God bless.
     
  6. vooks

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    Conflict is a figment of your ignorance and imagination.
    In your world, a sanctified can't sin and if they did sin, they were forgiven before they sinned.

    The point is ONLY believers are sanctified by the blood of the covenant. The man was sanctified, he must have been a believer. But your theory won't have none of that, you'd rather a blameless sacrifice was sanctified by its own blood
    You have no scriptural basis for this claim
    Not me @Darrell C but Holy Spirit. He says the one who trashes the very blood that sanctified him faces judgement
    Please pause and concentrate. Hopping from one scripture to another will not save you. For purposes of this thread, let's concern ourselves with the identity of the sanctified in Hebrews 10:29.

    Was Jesus a sinner needing the blameless blood coursing through his veins to sanctify him?
    They are apostates, lovers of the truth who depart from it. Former believers, just as this sanctified man who trashes the blood that cleansed him, that dog that returns to its vomit, the pig that goes back to dirt..
     
  7. vooks

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    You are losing your civility. At least you tried to suppress it..
     
    #7 vooks, Feb 25, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2016
  8. vooks

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    @Darrell C,
    1. From what did Jesus need his own blood to sanctify him?
    2. And what was He before his blood sanctified him?
     
  9. Darrell C

    Darrell C
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    Sorry, Vooks, but I am not going to spend a lot of time replying to your posts, because of (1) the insulting manner in which you post and (2), more importantly, you are not seriously considering the Scripture and points being offered to you.

    The conflict is apparent, and hopefully you will come to see that. Here, just as in every text you will use to teach loss of salvation, you make unbelievers...believers.

    We cannot have "believers" sanctified by the Blood of the Cross who tread underfoot the Son of God, despise His Sacrifice/Death, and resist the Spirit of Grace.

    If this were true, then it would be untrue that believers are those who do not draw back unto perdition.

    Hebrews 10:10-14 speaks of those sanctified by the Cross of Christ, and they are made perfect/complete for ever. What this means is that it is impossible to equate them with those who rejected Moses' Law, who are themselves contrasted with those who tread underfoot Christ, The Cross, the New Covenant, and resist the Spirit of Grace, which is a reference to the Ministry of the Comforter.

    Thus, you bring Scripture into conflict with itself, which demands a conclusion that your Theology, as well as your Soteriology...does not represent what Scripture teaches.

    So at this time I have only one question for you, found here...



    You cannot even post your theology without acknowledging the very truth you are trying to deny.

    The fact is that it is Christ Who is the subject of the sanctification in view, that is what these unbelievers who do draw back unto perdition are said to be despising and rejecting.

    And just as you say above, Christ is sanctified by His death on the Cross, and it is that death that the New Covenant, which they are also despising...is established on. It is the very means said to bring those who are sanctified to the realization of the promise of the New Covenant, which is...remission/forgiveness of sins in completion.


    God bless.
     
  10. Darrell C

    Darrell C
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    Not sure where you see me being uncivil.



    1. Nothing, that doesn't mean that He was not sanctified. This is in relation to the New Covenant itself. It's right there in the verse.

    2. Let's let Him tell us:


    John 17:17-19

    King James Version (KJV)


    17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

    18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

    19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.


    How does Christ "sanctify Himself?"

    Why was Christ sent into the World?

    You will find the Writer provides the answer repeatedly...through His Sacrifice.


    God bless.
     
  11. vooks

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    Your condescension is more insulting than anything Peter uttered as he denied Jesus.

    Secondly, proof texting is waste of time and height of ignorance.
    The 'conflict' is a figment of your imagination. Believers can depart from faith upon which they become unbelievers. I believed in Santa once, I don't believe in Santa

    True we can't have believers doing that, but we can have apostates who depart from their beliefs doing it

    But this is exactly the proof texting I'm talking about. I will be tackling this ES 'proof text' on its own thread. I hope and pray this is not your smoking gun in calling Jesus UNSANCTIFIED

    You have it in reverse; scriptures says they are sanctified forever,then proceeds to warn against willful sinning and pronounces a much scorer judgement of the sanctified who trash the blood of the covenant. This means;
    1. 'Sanctified/perfected forever' does not rule out apostasy
    2. 'Sanctified/perfected forever' does not save the apostate from judgement and indignation

    But you read #1 and quickly found your theology on it alone, and then use it to twist #2 to conform to your theory. You'd rather have a blemished Christ who so badly needed his own blood to sanctify him!
    The 'conflict' as I counsel you is a figment of your fringe theology that has zero regard for scriptures

    What was Jesus cleansed from by his own blood?
    From what is Jesus cleansed/sanctified from?
    Nope, he was not sanctified BY his death not but by his life of obedience culminating in his death.

    Please make it a habit of backing up your claims with scriptures at least a tithe of the times

    God bless
     
  12. vooks

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    You are the paragon of civility
    Sanctified from nothing yet sanctified? You got jokes


    You have been generous with unsolicited and out of context scriptures, why have you suddenly forgotten to quote?

    Give me a single scripture that remotely suggests Jesus was sanctified through his sacrifice, which should be easier than spelling your name seeing the 'Writer provides the answer repeatedly'
     
  13. Darrell C

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    Here is an example of conflict in your doctrine, you said...

    ...and now you are demanding proof.

    Well, do you believe your own statement? You have given Scripture here that testifies of Christ being sanctified through His Sacrifice.

    Or did you make a mistake and misspeak?


    God bless.
     
  14. Darrell C

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    Because you have proven yourself to be one who ignores your antagonist's responses. No point in wasting time, so we will just focus on individual issues, which will demand a conclusion.


    God bless.
     
  15. vooks

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    Playing dumb

    Where is the single verse that shows Jesus was sanctified by his own blood together with sinners?

    None
     
  16. vooks

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    From what was Jesus sanctified by his cleansing blood?

    Try and remember to give verses to at least pretend to support your heresies
     
  17. Darrell C

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    You will need to respond to post 13 before I spend any more time in discussion with you.

    Do you believe what you said or don't you?

    I am not going to keep answering the same questions over, Vooks.


    God bless.
     
  18. vooks

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    What question my brother @Darrell C ?


    You may wish to buy all the time you can to avoid explaining how and from what the blood of Jesus sanctified him from. I will be kind and gentle. Instead of pushing you to do the impossible, I will give you time to withdraw your claim.

    Gob bless;)
     
  19. Darrell C

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    Here it is again, and I will try to explain the point again:


    Here is an example of conflict in your doctrine, you said...


    Jesus sanctified himself through continuous obedience to the father's will ending I his death at Calvary (
    Philippians 2:8).
    Click to expand...



    ...and now you are demanding proof.

    Well, do you believe your own statement? You have given Scripture here that testifies of Christ being sanctified through His Sacrifice.

    Or did you make a mistake and misspeak?



    Apparently you are having a hard understanding that here, like in many of your posts, you are contradicting what you think is a valid point. You deny that it is Christ that is the subject of sanctification, compound that with an erroneous question like "What does Christ have to be sanctified from (which illustrates a poor understanding of sanctification either in the context in view as well as in Scripture)," and then state the very thing you are trying to deny.

    Amazing. Simply amazing.

    In your statement above, Vooks, you say Jesus sanctified Himself and place the culmination of that sanctification at the Cross.

    That is precisely what Hebrews 10:39 is speaking about.

    Now, answer the question: do you believe what you are saying here?


    God bless.
     
  20. vooks

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    I have been clear that Christ sanctified as used in John is a totally different concept that Hebrew 10. In John it is about consecration for a particular assignment while in Hebrews it is cleansing from sins. In John he was sanctified for His assignment. Nowhere do scriptures remotely hint that Christ needed his own blood to sanctify him as it did sinners. Again Jesus consecration is by his life of obedience culminating in His death. Do you need me posting my posts again at twice the font?Roflmao

    You are busy looking for the flimsiest excuse to avoid accounting for your frivolous and heretical claim that the blood of the covenant sanctified Jesus. The reason is simple; there is no scriptural basis

    Apparently, you'd rather Jesus was washed from something by his own blood to an apostate perishing.
     
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