1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Who Is The Holy Spirit?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Jack Lavictoire, Jul 18, 2006.

Top Posters
Page 1 of 2
  1. Jack Lavictoire

    Jack Lavictoire New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    0
    Who is the Holy Spirit?

    Let's put aside what men have told us and look at scriptures. After all, God didn't give us this book for nothing!

    Luke 3:22 (New King James Version)
    And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, "You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased."

    Matthew 3:16 (New King James Version)
    When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.

    John 1:32 (New King James Version)
    And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him.


    In the above we see that the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) descended in bodily form as a dove and not some third person in the God head. Right?

    Now let's take a look at something else.

    Mark 13:11 (New King James Version)
    But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit.

    You'll notice that it doesn't say who the Holy Spirit is, only that He will give you what to say. Now let's take a look at Matthew 10:18-20 NKJV

    Matthew 10:18-20 (New King James Version)
    You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.

    Notice that Matthew is writing about the same thing as Mark but that he goes on to say, "the Spirit of your Father".

    Thus we see that the Holy Spirit is in fact the Father's Spirit and not some third person in the God head.

    We also see in the following that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and not from the Son.

    John 15:26 (New King James Version)
    “But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

    Our Catholic brothers/sisters (Trinitarians) often point to 1 John 5:7 (New King James Version)


    1 John 5:7 (New King James Version)
    For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

    Thus they reason that the Holy Spirit is a third person. However, from reading the above scriptures it should be clear that it isn't saying that the Holy Spirit is a third person but simply that God's Spirit also bears record in heaven. Let me remind you that these are the same people who misinterpreted the scriptures and basically had the whole world believing that the world was flat. Is it any wonder then that they would misinterpret this scripture (As they do the others) and have the the whole world follow them into error? Think about it.

    Take a look at this.

    Acts 2:18 (New King James Version)
    And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy.


    Acts 19:6 (New King James Version)
    And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

    [Link removed.] :thumbs:

    Peace to the elect of God... Those who have been called by God our Father...You will never perish... Your rewards are kept safe in Heaven!

    2 Timothy 2:15 (New King James Version)
    Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
     
    #1 Jack Lavictoire, Jul 18, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2006
  2. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    1
    The form of the dove was just a visible way the HS descended. It does not deny the personhood of the HS.

    You left out Acts 5 which talks about Anias and Sapphira lying to the HS.

    Are you denying the personhood of the Holy Spirit? Yes or no? Are you saying the HS is the same as God the Father?
     
    #2 Marcia, Jul 18, 2006
  3. Jack Lavictoire

    Jack Lavictoire New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm not denying the Holy Spirit, what I'm saying is that the Holy Spirit (As seen in scriptures) is in fact the Father's Spirit and not some third person in the Godhead. Now seeing that the Holy Spirit is in fact the Father's Spirit it only stands to reason that His Spirit is God.

    1 Corinthians 3:16 (New King James Version)
    Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
     
    #3 Jack Lavictoire, Jul 18, 2006
  4. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    0
    If there is no trinity then what about this here?

    Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
     
    #4 xdisciplex, Jul 18, 2006
  5. Jack Lavictoire

    Jack Lavictoire New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    0
    I address that on the following page: [Link Removed.]
    In any case, I believe that I did a good job showing who the Holy Spirit is, so I leave this topic in God's hands. He will teach His own! As for the world, they can't receive the things of God, nor can they understand them.

    We worship what we know... Not what men have told us!

    By the way, I don't belong to any denomination - I simply used the scriptures to show that the Holy Spirit is in fact the Father's Spirit and not some third person in the Godhead. Your choice, believe the scriptures or believe the world.
     
    #5 Jack Lavictoire, Jul 18, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2006
  6. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Messages:
    2,398
    Likes Received:
    0
    Someone ought to read John 16: 5-15. Take off your jaundice glasses and see what the Bible teaches. Jesus Himself, said He was going to the Father and He would send the Helper (Holy Spirit). He did not say I am going to the Father and I will send Him to you and He will teach you. So many places the Bible clearly teaches the Trinity-----it is insane to deny it.

    Bro Tony
     
    #6 Bro Tony, Jul 18, 2006
  7. Jack Lavictoire

    Jack Lavictoire New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    0

    Funny because after reading the scriptures that I posted I would had thought that people would had thought it insane to believe otherwise. The scriptures clearly show us that the Holy Spirit is the Father's Spirit and not some third being in the Godhead!

    Oh well, believe what man have told you... As for me, I'll believe the scriptures. For all I know, you aren't even born of God... So you obviously would not understand the things of God.
     
    #7 Jack Lavictoire, Jul 18, 2006
  8. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    1
    The HS is often called the Spirit of God but this does not deny his personhood or that he is a member of the Trinitarian Godhead.

    The HS can be grieved, lied to, He instructs us, is eternal, is omnipotent, speaks, raised Jesus , etc. The HS has all the attributes of deity and personhood. The HS is not a force from God the Father.
     
    #8 Marcia, Jul 18, 2006
  9. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Messages:
    2,398
    Likes Received:
    0
    First of all Jack,

    You need to back up and be very careful about how you throw accusations against a believer in Christ. I not only am a believer, but a pastor of the Gospel for 25 years. You have demonstrated a lack of understanding of the Word and clearly an immaturity to discuss the issue that you brought up. The Scripture is clear, that you dont know how to understand it and choose to deny the trinity clearly puts you in the category of a heretic. And you have violated the rules of this board by questioning the salvation of another member. So if you want to discuss your heretical view here at least grow up or dont bring up any subjects. It is your denial of the Trinity that places you outside the perimeters of orthodox Christianity not the view of the trinitarians.

    Bro Tony
     
    #9 Bro Tony, Jul 18, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2006
  10. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    Jack, I think I asked before. Are you Oneness?
     
    #10 webdog, Jul 18, 2006
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    While it is true that you gave your comment -- you did not actually exegete anything because "The world is flat" topic is not connected to 1 John 5 in any way.

    IF we could insert any definition we want into any text by simply noting that the world is not flat and those that oppose our view on some text at one time thought the world was flat - we could change a great many texts any way the wind is blowing.

    In the case above you would need to "show" that John's readers would understand "three who bear witness" (testify as in a court trial) are not all "beings".

    And that would be a pretty hard case to make.
     
    #11 BobRyan, Jul 18, 2006
  12. Jack Lavictoire

    Jack Lavictoire New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, I don't belong to any denomination. I'm a Christian! (Period)


    And Bro Tony, you say that you've been a pastor for 25 yrs and yet you don't know who the Holy Spirit is! Man, I'm glad I don't attend your church.

    Dear Father teach your people!!! :praying:
    In the name of your Son Jesus I pray.

    AMEN!
     
    #12 Jack Lavictoire, Jul 18, 2006
  13. Jack Lavictoire

    Jack Lavictoire New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    0
    No one is denying that God's Spirit can be grieved, lied to and so on... However, seeing that the Holy Spirit is in fact the Father's Spirit it should be clear that the Holy Spirit isn't a third person in the Godhead.

    In short, there is no trinity.

    We have the Father and His Son - Jesus Christ who is also in very nature God.
    The Holy Spirit is obviously God since He's the Father's Spirit.

    Or don't you know that the Father's Spirit dwells in us who believe?

    I submit that it's high time for God's people to read His book and put aside what we have been told...

    If He loves you more, will you love Him less? Be that as it may... He is faithful and will teach His own.

    Peace to the elect of God! :thumbs:
     
    #13 Jack Lavictoire, Jul 19, 2006
  14. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,333
    Likes Received:
    210
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Show me one verse that says that the Holy Spirit is the "Spirit of the Father."
     
    #14 StefanM, Jul 19, 2006
  15. music4Him

    music4Him New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2004
    Messages:
    3,333
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok then what about the seven Spirits of God? Rev.3:1; Rev.4:5; Rev.5:6. :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #15 music4Him, Jul 19, 2006
  16. gekko

    gekko New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    0
    just as a note: i fully believe in the trinity.
    --

    im just posting a few scriptures that Jack may post.
    --

    i will make a point and say that "Holy Spirit" is only mentioned 4 times where "Holy Ghost" is mentioned 90 times - all in the NT.
    ---

    Ephesians 4:30 - And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

    1 Thessalonians 4:8 - He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

    the above two verses are the only two verses that suggest that the holy spirit is God's spirit.

    the below verse supports the trinity
    here's a gooder:
    1 John 5:7 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
     
    #16 gekko, Jul 19, 2006
  17. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    Oneness is not a denimination, it's a belief. Why wouldn't you attend ANY church?!?
     
    #17 webdog, Jul 19, 2006
  18. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Messages:
    2,398
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jack,

    Its a good thing your not a member of the church I pastor. Because your heretical beliefs on the Holy Spirit would get you disciplined. It is you who clearly does not know who the Holy Spirit is. I will let the Scripture be my guide, not some wild-eyed heretic who is his own final authority. You claim to be a "christian period!", but your heretical doctrine concerning the Trinity marks you as one who is not a Christian, but a heretic.

    Bro Tony
     
    #18 Bro Tony, Jul 19, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2006
  19. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    1
    God does not have a spirit; He is spirit (see John 4). When the Bible uses the phrase "the Spirit of God," it is referring to the Holy Spirit, who is the 3rd person of the Trinity. The HS is clearly shown in scripture to have his own personhood distinct from God and Jesus, but yet one with them in the Godhead.

    I realize now that you are not Oneness but follow something I've heard about before -- a denial of the Trinity by denying that the HS is the 3rd person of the Trinity. I've only heard of this, never came across anyone who believe this heresy until now.

    You need to re-examine scriptures because this teaching is outside the Christian faith.
     
    #19 Marcia, Jul 19, 2006
  20. genesis12

    genesis12 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2005
    Messages:
    799
    Likes Received:
    1
    If we can convince you, Jack, could you at least get a different avatar?
     
    #20 genesis12, Jul 19, 2006
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 2
Loading...