1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Who or What Is Responsible...

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by TCGreek, Aug 24, 2007.

  1. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2005
    Messages:
    3,965
    Likes Received:
    0
    Huh? Where have you been? I know many,many missionaries sent right here to the good ol' USA.
     
  2. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2005
    Messages:
    3,965
    Likes Received:
    0
    Um, would your being saved by hearing the Gospel in English also be what you attempt to negate as "advanced revelation"?:love2:
     
  3. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    So if I read right it all comes down to money and new scholarship, which involves reflecting modern language.
     
  4. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    JoJ , what's a "back translation" ?
     
  5. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,349
    Likes Received:
    1,772
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In doing a tribal translation, the translator will translate the tribal translation back into English. It can then be checked for accuracy in a roundabout way by the translators and by scholars who don't know the tribal language. :type:
     
  6. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,349
    Likes Received:
    1,772
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I have just a few minutes before heading off to church. Let's see if I can give a quick answer. Today and tomorrow are very busy, but if this doesn't satisfy, Tuesday I can say more.

    Overall, the evangelical missions force has been decreasing for years. Yet the number of new translations has been increasing exponentially. To me this says misplaced priorities in general. (So my post was not intended to produce guilt--just knowledge and challenge.) Should we major on the Great Commission, stated five times in Scripture, or on producing new translations and other products for America?

    I have one very expensive, so-so quality Bible program for my Japanese PC. I can get many different ones in English. Why isn't some of that money being used to reach the world for Christ?

    In an old missions illustration, what would you do if you saw a log being carried by eleven men, ten on one side and one on the other? Who would you help? :type:
     
  7. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I'd join the side of the ten . No use being the odd-man out .
     
  8. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,051
    Likes Received:
    3
    Thanks! The log just got heavier. :(
     
  9. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    I just checked www.e-sword.net and they have a Japanese version...

    Have you seen it?
     
  10. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,349
    Likes Received:
    1,772
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, I forgot about this. It is very recent, and I'm happy to have it. Chances are, though, that the publishers of this Bible (the Shinkaiyaku) will either ask them to cease and desist (they have done this before on the Internet), or they will as for hefty fees. I've had dealings with them as a go-between for another missionary trying to get permission to print just a Gospel of John. Lots of hoops to jump through. :tear:
     
  11. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,349
    Likes Received:
    1,772
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Spoiler! :rolleyes:
     
  12. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It is John. Indirectly. You yourself are the proof.

    With all of our faults, where would many nations in this world be without American missionaries. And where would those missionaries obedient to the Great Commission be without those faithful ones at home supporting them and supplying them with 21st century Scripture tools?

    Keep up the good work and God bless you.

    Psalm 68:11 The Lord gave the word: great was the company of those that published it.

    HankD
     
  13. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    8,755
    Likes Received:
    0
    I likewise support what John of Japan (as well as any others doing the same thing) is doing, as well.

    However, I think that you have, by not expounding on Ps. 68:11, actually allowed today's language to be read back into the Hebrew, here, contributing to eisegesis. I'm pretty sure that "published" in the sense of 2500-3000 years ago, did not refer to either what John of Japan is doing in translating Scripture into another language, or what any entity is doing today, in 'printing' any and all translations into 'book' form.

    Ed
     
  14. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,349
    Likes Received:
    1,772
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thanks for the encouragement, HankD. "Doin' the best we can with what we've got."--Bert Gummer, "Tremors."
     
  15. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    2
    I never thought I'd see someone quote Tremors. Bravo, John. :laugh:
     
  16. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,349
    Likes Received:
    1,772
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Hey, even missionaries gotta have fun! :smilewinkgrin: And Bert is so quotable!

    "I feel I was denied critical need-to-know information."--Bert. What missionary can't identify with that??!!
    [​IMG]
     
  17. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Your welcome.

    Acts 13
    47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
    48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
    49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

    HankD​
     
  18. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    2,929
    Likes Received:
    4
    No, because other primary reasons for additional English versions have not been addressed yet.

    Besides "new scholarship" there is 'other scholarship', that is, the likes of Lamsa and his Peshitta-based translation. Most 'Catholic' versions (including Wycliffe's) are based upon the Vulgate text. There are Septuagint-based versions also.

    Many of the versions have been the product of sectarian interpretations. Some are notorious for their illegitimate renderings to support various dogmas. These versions reflect denominational, racist, or socio-political influence. There are several 'sacred names' translations (cults), The Word for Us (feminist) and the Anointed Standard Translation (white supremacist) are even less well recognized examples than the Christian Community Bible (ecumenical) and the Authentic New Testament (Jewish); I will not mention the cliche representatives.

    A few versions have been made to address the legitimate needs of some reader groups. Bibles with restricted vocabulary (known as 'basic' or 'easy' reading) have been produced to assist readers with special needs (children, deaf, and English-as-second-language are examples). Bible in Basic English, Easy English Bible, NCV (which is basically the same as English Version for Deaf, New Easy-to-Read Version, and the International Children's Bible.)

    There have been some versions offered from a literary approach. Some versions are crafted for smoother private reading, or public (aloud) reading. There is a difference between American English and British or Scottish English. These are often abridged and paraphrasical which limits their usefulness. The Bible Designed to be Read as Literature, Book of God as a Novel, The Dartmouth Bible, and Reader’s Digest Bible are some examples. The worst of these become inappropriately casual and ridiculous: Cotton Patch Version (southern rural), Cockney Bible, and The Word on the Street (slang).

    Several versions are an attempt at more literal or exacting translation from the original languages. These versions emphasize verb tenses, word order, or expand upon key words (its impossible to emphasize everything within a single version). I would include the Young's Literal, AMP, Concordant Literal NT, ALT, The Emphasized Bible (Rotherham), An Understandable Version, Weust and others in this category. Some that specifically translate from the TR would be the Last Days Bible, The People's NT, KJV2, and NT in Original Order. These are not like the ASV updated to the NASB, the RSV to the ESV, or the NEB becoming the REB.

    Some versions were intended to modernize the text of an existing translation (Webster's, or The 21st Century KJV) but I think there are fewer of those than the ones initiated due to one of the above reasons. The HCSB seems to be a unique case since it is not based upon a peculiar text (although conceived as a Majority Text project), nor is it an update an already published version, nor does it demonstrate strong doctrinal slant, nor address a particular reader challenge, nor really expand upon the underlying text; money seems to have been the prime motivator. And so to answer the OP: there are many people (groups) with different interests and goals that responsible for the proliferation of Bible versions; one translation would suffice if we were all identical.
     
    #38 franklinmonroe, Aug 27, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2007
  19. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    1. "There are many peopl (group) with different interests and goals that [are] responsible for the proliferation of Bible versions." So this is really what it comes down to.

    2. Money, scholarship would all have to fit that statement.
     
  20. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    2,929
    Likes Received:
    4
    The OP asked "who/what", and I believe that the answer is people-groups. Money and scholarship are just two of the infinite interests & goals they have, which address the 'why/how' question. Some people are motivated primarily by God, some by profit or by other purposes.
     
    #40 franklinmonroe, Aug 27, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2007
Loading...