1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Who or What is the Creator of our Dead Soul?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Heavenly Pilgrim, Dec 29, 2009.

Top Posters
Page 1 of 3
  1. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    Does the union of the two physical elements necessary for human life have the ability to create a living(or in our case 'dead' at least according to some) soul? If so, why are they not God? If the two elements are not capable of creating the soul, who is? Could it be God? If man is created spiritually dead as original sin implies, the soul would have to be created dead. Does God create dead souls, or are we back to the two physical elements necessary for life being God and as such the creators of our dead souls? If God does create dead souls, how is He not the Creator of all sin?
     
    #1 Heavenly Pilgrim, Dec 29, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2009
  2. paganini_4184

    paganini_4184 Guest

    "foolish and unlearned questions avoid"

    2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.


    unlearned-Greek, "undisciplined"; not tending to promote the discipline of faith and morals (Pr 5:23). "Uninstructive"; in contrast with "instructing" (2Ti 2:25), and "wise unto salvation" (2Ti 3:15).

    avoid-"decline."

    &​

    2 Timothy 2:14 Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers.

    Paganini
     
    #2 paganini_4184, Dec 29, 2009
  3. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    If it is just and necessary to promote sound doctrine, it is certainly just and as necesssary to discuss, test, and have tested the logical ramifications of the doctrines we hold.
     
    #3 Heavenly Pilgrim, Dec 29, 2009
  4. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    Paganini, is God the Creator of the souls of all men?

    Possibly I misunderstood you? Maybe you are saying the doctrine of original sin is foolishness and as such should not be discussed.
     
    #4 Heavenly Pilgrim, Dec 29, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2009
  5. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,914
    Likes Received:
    706
    God creates souls. It is man who has made them dead.
     
    #5 annsni, Dec 29, 2009
  6. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ann, was Adam in possession of all future souls or what? If one is born in a dead condition, he could not have made his own soul dead could he? Who did then?
     
    #6 Heavenly Pilgrim, Dec 29, 2009
  7. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    By the way Paganini, searching for the truth will not be our ruin, for it is the truth that shall set man free.
     
    #7 Heavenly Pilgrim, Dec 29, 2009
  8. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,914
    Likes Received:
    706
    Romans 5 speaks to this:

    12Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— 13for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
    15But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16And the free gift is not like the result of that one man’s sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

    18Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. 19For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous. 20Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
     
    #8 annsni, Dec 29, 2009
  9. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    1
    Spiritually dead means separated from God. Yes, men are born in a spiritual dead state because their nature is corrupted by sin. Man is born selfish and in rebellion against God.
     
    #9 Marcia, Dec 29, 2009
  10. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    Don't turn around now Marcia. Something might be creeping up on you. :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #10 Heavenly Pilgrim, Dec 29, 2009
  11. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ann, just for the record, in verse twelve why has death spread upon all men? Was it due to the sin stork's impregmentation, Adam, your mother or your father , faulty genes, original sin............ or could it have p o s s i b l y been due to each individuals own personal sin, again according to verse twelve (12)?

    That will most likely take some time to study the verse to find out, so I will get some sleep and read your answer in the morning.

    May The Giver of ALL Truth enlighten our hearts. :thumbsup:
     
    #11 Heavenly Pilgrim, Dec 29, 2009
  12. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    1
    I don't think so. Isn't this discussion going on on the other thread?
     
    #12 Marcia, Dec 29, 2009
  13. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    I felt to focus on this issue it might derail the general focus of the other thread. I desire to establish whether or not God is the Author and Creator of our souls on this thread and the implications of that upon the notion that souls are created sinful, at least to some.
     
    #13 Heavenly Pilgrim, Dec 30, 2009
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Genesis 2 KJV "God formed man of the DUST of the ground and breathed into him the breath of life - and man BECAME a living soul".

    1. No such thing as someone who is alive being a "dead soul" in all of scripture.
    2. No text says "your soul was dead - but now it is alive"

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #14 BobRyan, Dec 30, 2009
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    The Law of heredity enables the sinless children of sinless pre-fall Adam and Eve (had there ever been any - which of course there were not) to inherit sinless perfect human nature.

    But that same mechanism also allows the fallen children of fallen Adam and Eve to inherit the sinful nature of their parents.

    A related question to the one in the OP - if God specifically creates every living thing today - then he specifically created each weed in your yard -- why do you then weed out the weeds that God specifically created and placed there -- selecting in favor of God's grass and deselecting God's plants that you choose to call "weeds"?

    Why choose to favor the flowers you grow indoors - but choose to kill and exterminate every mouse you find in the house if you really think God specifically created each one and placed them there just as they are?

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #15 BobRyan, Dec 30, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2009
  16. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,914
    Likes Received:
    706
    Well, since God says that all have sinned, all are unrighteous and sin passed to all men, I'll go by what He said. How does it get passed down? I don't know but I do know that God said it does so I'll go with that. I don't see anywhere in Scripture that says that we're born sinless and then become sinful when we finally sin - but that even from the womb we are sinful. Works for me.
     
    #16 annsni, Dec 30, 2009
  17. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ann, where does Scripture state “sin passed to all men” as you say? Where does it say that all men are sinful “even from the womb?”
     
    #17 Heavenly Pilgrim, Dec 30, 2009
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Romans 3 comes close.
     
    #18 BobRyan, Dec 31, 2009
  19. David Michael Harris

    David Michael Harris Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,362
    Likes Received:
    1
    Geez, that's a deep one.

    It's important to start off in thoughts like this that God is Righteous.

    Get Tozers book, Knowledge of the Holy.
     
    #19 David Michael Harris, Dec 31, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2009
  20. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    DMH, I have many of his books including the one you mention, have read them, and like his approach to most issues. Great author indeed. :thumbsup:
     
    #20 Heavenly Pilgrim, Dec 31, 2009
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 3
Loading...