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Who Said This (2)

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by J.D., Aug 11, 2006.

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  1. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Who said this:

    Multiple choice (only one correct answer)

    a. Page Patterson
    b. Curtis Hutson
    c. W.A. Criswell
    d. John Calvin
     
    #1 J.D., Aug 11, 2006
  2. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    b

    (why must I enter 10 characters?)
     
    #2 whatever, Aug 11, 2006
  3. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Responders, if you don't mind, please type out the name of your selection so we don't have to scroll back up to see your selection. I can already see that this is going to surprise some of you. I love surprises!

    If you find the correct answer on the internet or you know it from your training, please don't give a reference until a few people have had a chance to respond. I'll give the correct answer with the internet link sometime later depending on the number of responses.
     
    #3 J.D., Aug 11, 2006
  4. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Well, I know John Calvin did not say it. :smilewinkgrin:

    I don't know who Curtis Hutson is. I know who Patterson and Criswell are, but don't know where they stand on this issue.

    Do I get a point for saying who didn't say it? :tongue3:
     
    #4 Marcia, Aug 11, 2006
  5. Andy T.

    Andy T. Active Member

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    I think I've heard Patterson say it, but he always qualifies it (you know, "it suffers the death of a thousand qualifications").
     
    #5 Andy T., Aug 13, 2006
  6. Rex77

    Rex77 Member

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    None should have.

    1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas [there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
    4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
    5 ¶ Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
     
    #6 Rex77, Aug 13, 2006
  7. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Like a previous thread on this sort of thing, who cares???

    But I'll go with Al Mohler and Jacob Arminius, even though I had to add them to the list! :type: :laugh: :laugh: :applause:

    Oh yeah, one more thing! Too bad we don't have a scowling graemlin to use!

    Ed
     
    #7 EdSutton, Aug 13, 2006
  8. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    Brother Patterson is too smart to confess he may be one

    So its got to be Al Mohler----wait a minute---He's as smarter as Patterson is---

    Shoot fire, JD----why don't you just mark the right answer for us and let us "look off of" you, Bro!!!
     
    #8 blackbird, Aug 13, 2006
  9. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    O.K., it's W. A. Criswell.

    Quote:



    Here's the link. http://www.wacriswell.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/Search.Transcripts/sermon/1821.cfm
     
    #9 J.D., Aug 13, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2006
  10. 2BHizown

    2BHizown New Member

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    Ssssshock!
     
    #10 2BHizown, Aug 13, 2006
  11. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Is anyone else besides 2BHizown shocked by this? I thought it was a real eye-opener.
     
    #11 J.D., Aug 17, 2006
  12. Andy T.

    Andy T. Active Member

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    To be honest, I do not know much about Criswell, other than he was a famous SBC preacher in Dallas. Was he known as a non-Calvinist and that's why the statement is surprising?
     
    #12 Andy T., Aug 17, 2006
  13. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    It wasn't that he was known as a non-Cal, although I'm pretty sure a lot of Baptists would have thought so, but it's that he WASN'T known as a Calvinist.

    The conversation I would like to see open up is why some older fundamentalists that were Calvinists didn't have to go around with a big tag on his back saying "WARNING: THIS MAN IS A CALVINIST BUT WE LOVE HIM IN SPITE OF THE HERESY HE PREACHES"

    In other words, it seems to me that this current atmosphere of rabid anti-calvinism hasn't been around that long - maybe 50 years. Criswell preached that sermon in 1955 and the full weight of Arminian disgust didn't come falling down on him then, but it would now.

    Also, I've identified some IFB statements of faith that are very calvinistic. JohnofJapan claims that none of the leaders of the IFB movement were Calvinists. But someone somewhere said that J Frank Norris was a Calvinist, and the statement of faith for Arlington Baptist College, and the World Baptist Fellowship, which are the "children" of JFN, are strongly calvinistic statements. So also is the SOF of Piedmont Baptist College. The more I research the more I discover that the doctrine of monergistic regeneration was very strong, if not predominant, among the early fundamentalists of the 20th century.
     
    #13 J.D., Aug 17, 2006
  14. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Whether or not Criswell was a Calvinist is a moot point as far as Fundamentalism goes. From the 1940's through the 1970's, no SBC preachers claimed to be "Fundamentalist." You were only a Fundamentalist in those days if you came out of the SBC, and Criswell definitely did not do that, though he maintained links with some prominent Fundamentalists, including my grandfather.

    If J. Frank Norris was a Calvinist, I'll eat my Institutes!! I have heard him preach on tape, and I have his life story, Inside History, with many quotes by him, and I really don't believe he was a Calvinist. Wishful thinking!

    As for the ABC/WBF Statement of Faith (same statement), it leans slightly Calvinist, but I could sign it honestly and I'm not one. More wishful thinking!
     
    #14 John of Japan, Aug 18, 2006
  15. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    John, are you sure you could sign this?

    SECTION 9. OF GRACE IN THE NEW CREATION


    We believe that in order to be saved, sinners must be born again; that the new birth is a new creation in Christ Jesus; that it is instantaneous and not a process; that in the new birth the dead in trespasses and in sins is made a partaker of the divine nature and receives eternal life, the free gift of God; that the new creation is brought about in a manner above our comprehension, not by culture, not by character, nor by the will of man, but wholly and solely by the power of the Holy Spirit in connection with divine truth, so as to secure our voluntary obedience to the gospel; that its proper evidence appears in the holy fruits of repentance and faith and newness of life.

    SECTION 12. OF REPENTANCE AND FAITH


    We believe that Repentance and Faith are solemn obligations, and also inseparable graces, wrought in our souls by the quickening Spirit of God; thereby, being deeply convicted of our guilt, danger, helplessness, and of the way of salvation by Christ, we turn to God with unfeigned contrition, confession, and supplication for mercy; at the same time heartily receiving the Lord Jesus Christ and openly confessing Him as our only and all-sufficient Saviour.

    This statement clearly declares that regeneration preceeds faith. Are you SURE you would sign it?
     
    #15 J.D., Aug 20, 2006
  16. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Of course I would sign it. I said I would.

    Note the "instantaneous and not a process," and "at the same time" statements. Personally, I don't go for those "order of salvation" discussions.
     
    #16 John of Japan, Aug 20, 2006
  17. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Oh, I do. In fact, I'm going to try to get a multi-million dollar research grant to plot out the succession of events. I plan to attach a whole bunch of wires to hundreds of unsaved subjects and have someone preach the gospel to them. One of them has to get saved as a result, and I'll finally unlock the mystery of which comes before which, and how many picoseconds it takes to get from one point to the next.

    Anyone want to help fund this? ;)
     
    #17 npetreley, Aug 20, 2006
  18. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    My 2 cent check is in the mail!
     
    #18 El_Guero, Aug 20, 2006
  19. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    J.D.

    Historically, some, Baptists in America, were 'calvinists'. Some Baptists were 'calvinistic'. And most Baptists were closer to reformed theology than to armenian theology. Baptists separated from the reformed theology . . . not to reformed theology. Yes, reformed theology has much in common with Baptist distinctives - we both use the Bible.

    However, claiming someone was a calvinist because their words were taken out of context is dangerous.

    But, until the 'resurgence' I only heard one person ever teach calvinism in an SBC church. I still have not heard one IFB (down here most come from IBBF and WBF - if I remember my letters) claim anything close to calvinism.

    Read the Baptist (used to be Criswell) Study Bible and look at Romans 8 & 1 John 2:2. This is not a 'calvinistic' commentary.

    To claim that Criswell was a calvinist is as ludicrous as claiming J. Frank (Norris) was. They were about as opposite as they get.
     
    #19 El_Guero, Aug 20, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2006
  20. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    :laugh: :laugh:
    I could send you some Hong Kong dollars left over from our trip there.
     
    #20 John of Japan, Aug 20, 2006
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