Who Shall Lay Anything To The Charge of Gods Elect?

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by tyndale1946, Aug 11, 2014.

  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
    34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
    35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
    36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
    37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
    38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
    39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
    I believe that this scripture teaches judgement! Who judges God. God judges us through the holy work of Christ. Since Christ stood where we could not stand God looks through the finished work of Christ on the cross to us who were sinners. Looking through the shed redeeming blood of Christ Jesus sees the elect eternally forgiven. Therefore they have eternal life. I believe in a general judgement Jesus separating the sheep from the goats. What I don't believe is that we will stand before the throne of God and every life will be exposed before Christ or after someone came to Christ every thought every deed good or bad. There is no charge layed against us. Is the prodigal son going to be judged according to his riotous living later or was he judged then? A case in point he came back to his Fathers house after he had ended up living with pigs.Lk 15:18 I will arise and go to my father and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven and before thee. 19: And I am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants. ( I want to ask everyone on here have YOU ever felt like that?) I know I have. Did the Father judge him? Our Father is just like his Father. He arose and came to his father. But when we was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. 21: And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and I am no more worthy to be called thy son. 22 But the father said unto his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: 23: And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; let us eat, and be merry: For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
    Notice he was Always his Fathers Son. Eternal Security! Since our heavenly Father is the judge... Who Shall Lay Anything To The Charge of Gods Elect?... What about the attitude of the prodigals son older brother? Some other brother can talk about that topic. II Tim 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord giveth thee understanding in all things.
     
  2. convicted1

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    20+ views and not one free will believer response? :confused:


    Come on guys...
     
  3. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    That is Ok!... The truth hurts!... Maybe that will set a fire:smilewinkgrin: Then again they know how I stand and are ignoring me.
     
  4. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Not yet....but wait for it.:love2:
     
  5. Winman

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    This thread was made for Van, wait, he will answer.
     
  6. JamesL

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    I'm pretty sure you're not aware of it, but your thoughts are totally foreign to the context.
     
  7. tyndale1946

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    I'm pretty sure you're not aware of it, but your thoughts are totally foreign to the context. It is well then enlighten me to a better concept and interpretation according to scripture. I do not have a closed mind and am opened to someone who will explain it more thoroughly to me. Then I will weigh it and see if I accept it or not. My mind is not closed to learning as some seem to be on here.

    II Tim 2:7 Consider what I say, and THE LORD giveth thee the understanding in all things.
     
    #7 tyndale1946, Aug 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2014
  8. webdog

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    What is there to respond to?
     
  9. Rippon

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    T1946, your commentary in the op has nothing to do with the text you gave -Ro. 8:33-39.

    People,including myself, are wondering what's up with that.
     
  10. JamesL

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    I can, and am willing. But it is a long and arduous task. And the context, which runs from 8:14 (roughly) through 12:2, goes against the grain of Reformation thought.

    If you're willing to dig deep, let me know. It is not an at-a-glance understanding at all.
     
  11. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    And the context, which runs from 8:14 (roughly) through 12:2, goes against the grain of Reformation thought. It does? Well give me a link where I can check this grain of Reformation thought. Then I will make the understanding according that the Lord gives me. All scripture is given by the inspiration of God... And is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, for instruction in righteousness... that the man of God may be perfect thoroughly furnished into all good works. Then if I am in error I will personally apologize to everyone on this board for the post and that is a promise. How many on here would say that?
     
  12. JamesL

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    I don't think you understood what I said and meant.

    I said that a proper understanding of the context runs against the grain of Protestant thought.
    In other words - if I were to explain the context, Protestants would come screaming because it does not fit their paradigm.

    Like I said, the context runs through 4 whole chapters, and it is not easy to see. This is one of those passage Peter wrote about:

    "just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand..." (2Peter 3:15-16)


    Maybe a parallel passage will help:

    Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies; who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Just as it is written,

    “For Your sake we are being put to death all day long;
    We were considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”

    But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
    (Romans 8:33-39)


    Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows. (Matt 10:28-31)


    Do you see that these are parallel passages?
     
  13. Reformed

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    I echo brother Rippon's comment. I truly do not understand the commentary following the posting of Romans 8:33-39. This passage tells us that there is no legal charge or accusation that can be brought before God, against those who are in Jesus Christ. Earlier in the chapter we read that Jesus condemned sin in the flesh (v. 3). So, the requirement of the Law (death; Ezk. 18:20) has been fulfilled in us through Christ (v. 4). The rest of the chapter instructs Christians on their victory in Christ and the powerful role of the Holy Spirit in their lives. The chapter concludes with a crescendo. Who can bring a charge against God's elect? It's a rhetorical question. No one! The enemy will try, but none of his accusations will be admissible in the courtroom of God? Why? Because the eternal penalty for sin has already been paid by God's Son.
     
  14. tyndale1946

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    I made a promise that if I was in error I would apologize to everyone on this board because I took it out of context. Well I was and I wasn't... The whole chapter of Luke 15 repentance... Repentance... REPENTENCE! That being said Who can repent? Well we know by scripture that after the wayward son saw his condition and realized who he was, a sinner, he made haste to his fathers house that he left. Case in point the son always belonged to the father and the father saw him a great way off before he got there. The father knew he was coming home. Since it is a parable and Jesus is talking to Publicans, Sinners, Pharisees and scribes it is directed to them. All three parables. Parables were directed to a group and they were also directed at a group. I believe the ones that received it were publicans and sinners. The ones that did not were the Pharisees and scribes. Who I believe and someone can correct me if I am wrong, the older brother represents who the parable is directed at, the Pharisees and scribes. John 1:11 He came unto his own and his own received him not, 12: But as many as received him to them gave he power to become the sons of God even to those that believe on his name. 13: Which were born, not of blood, nor the will of the flesh, nor the will of man, but of God. The older brother was upset at the father who rejoiced when his younger brother returned and his treatment of him. He didn't judge him as the world had judged him already. Case in point the only one who can repent is one who is elect of God. Publicans and sinners have their hearts prepared by God for repentance but those who hold to the Law and say we be Abrahams children do not. To say that a parable or passage of scripture has only one application is unbiblical as there are many application to various scriptures. Rightly dividing that truth is the key and I feel I have done nothing to contradict scripture. Line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little there a little as the scripture says. Those who want to accept what I say and add some ok. Those that disagree I'm not offended. I've got a hard shell.:smilewinkgrin: And As I always say... II Tim 2:7 "Consider what I say and the Lord giveth thee understanding in all things."
     
  15. Alcott

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    Who Shall Lay Anything To The Charge of Gods Elect?

    Bank of America? They do to me every month.
     
  16. tyndale1946

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    Did you ever take that out of context!:tonofbricks:But it was Funny!:smilewinkgrin:
     
  17. preacher4truth

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    An unfounded statement that rests solely upon you subjectively. In other words JamesL it is without eternal authority and the burden of proof lies upon you. That said you'll never be able to prove your premise, as it is simply a knee jerk reaction.

    Yet your conclusion that was to be taken as dogma was just that. :thumbs:
     
  18. JamesL

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    Well, at least I got a thumbs up. Thanks for your support. Too bad, though. You just might have written an article explaining why you deserted Calvinism

    It will be an interesting read someday, if you ever decide you wanna dig deep.
     
  19. preacher4truth

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    That was cute JamesL yet you've misunderstood the :thumbs: as approval. Now go prove your premise to which I requested prior to your last response, that is, unless you want to continue on your out.

    I highly doubt you can do so as all you've provided is an unfounded and subjective drive-by slam devoid of authority and truth.
     
  20. convicted1

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    [​IMG]


    This gonna get good....
     

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