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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Heavenly Pilgrim, Jan 14, 2010.
Who was made lower, God or angels?
Be brave in answering such a simple question. Just for starters you have a 50% chance of getting it right! This very well could prove to be a very interesting and enlghtening discussion.:wavey:
God sovereignly made Himself lower than the angels (In flesh) for a little while, but the angels are lower. :tongue3:
God the Son, Jesus Christ, was made lower than the angels for a time.
Sorry, but what's the discussion point here?
HP: Now here is one that knows how to cover all the bases.:laugh:
Seriously, how can you have it both ways? Was God in the flesh in reality made lower than the angels for a time period or not?
If we can start to get a grip on that truth, it might just be possible to ascertain as to what possible trait (s) were created ‘lower’ in God in the flesh than angels naturally possess. Our insight into the Incarnation might be serious enhanced as well as to the traits of the essence of human nature itself.
HP: That is a straight forward Scriptural answer.:thumbsup: Now can you telt us just what that might entail? What possible traits of Christ during His tenure on earth were 'lower' than the angels? Do you have any idea as to what might be considered as 'lower?' What realm do these 'lower' qualities involve? What capabilities might have differered from that of an angel, or God Himself? If angels are lower than God, and Christ was made lower than angels, there must be some form of distinction between God and Christ in the flesh. What might it consist of?
Depends upon what "made" means and what it meant to Greek literate people 2000 years ago.
What does Scripture say?
What a foolish question--hardly worth answering, but I will anyway just to pass the time.
There is absolutely NO one even equal to God--let alone above Him. God was not created; He created everything and everyone else. God has always existed.
" 1Co 14:34 ¶ Let your women keep silence "
Forgive me Ann, I could not resist. :smilewinkgrin:
Ann, God has given us a mind coupled with intuitve wisdon and priciples of immutable justice, matters of fact, and first truths of reason that we can and should apply to any rendering of Scripture. The same common intuitive sense that tells you that Christ is not a door will also tell you that if it is necessitated, it cannot be sin, nor can any just punishment be administered if no ability of contrary choice or any knowledge whatsoever exists of the stated commands(s). To ignore such common sense granted to us intuitively by God is to walk blindly into the trap of error.
We shouold always start from the simplest truths God has granted to man and use them to help unlock deeper truths.
HP: God clearly created Christ a little ‘LOWER” than the angels. Is that foolishness to you? Christ was God manifest in the flesh was He not? Thoughts?
I AM silent. No one can hear me - I just type.
Ann, how about that fine looking gentleman to your right? Does he type?
While CCRobinson is evidently off taking a break, can anyone else answer these questions? What possible traits of Christ during His tenure on earth were 'lower' than the angels? Do you have any idea as to what might be considered as 'lower?' What realm do these 'lower' qualities involve? What capabilities might have differered from that of an angel, or God Himself? If angels are lower than God, and Christ was made lower than angels, there must be some form of distinction between God and Christ in the flesh. What might it consist of?
Man was made lower than the angels -- God was not made at all.:thumbsup:
I suppose the list is pretty long.
God (Christ) tells Moses that if Moses sees anything but his back - he would die. Christ (God the Son) chose to "empty himself being found in the form of a man" - Phil 2 -- INSTEAD of coming to earth as a bright shining, infinite being in charge of all the universe.
But when He comes the Second time -- watch out!!
Now Bob, to the Word and the Testimony:thumbsup:: Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who WAS MADE a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Was Jesus God?
Jesus was GOD even BEFORE He was incarnated as Jesus.
He "emptied himself" in order to be found in the "form of a man" in the mystery we call the "incarnation".
2Cor 5 "God MADE him who knew no sin to BE SIN in our behalf". This is not a reference to God the Father "MAKING" God the Son.
HP: You are certainly not making it easy for those who at every turn try to elevate Jesus to a level that God the Father exists on.
Was it really possible that Jesus did not possess all wisdom, mobility, sight as God while on earth? Were all His acts and attributes necessitated by His Character, or could have He really been tempted in all points as we are? Did Christ exercise faith? Can God the Father exercise faith? Could the possibility have existed that Christ had to accept His position as God by faith?
He does - a lot. Why?