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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by TaliOrlando, Aug 10, 2006.
Who was he??
I always wondered who he was. We see his character in Genesis and I believe it states
Abram and Melchizedek Genesis 14
18 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was the priest of God Most High. 19 And he blessed him and said:
“ Blessed be Abram of God Most High,
Possessor of heaven and earth;
20 And blessed be God Most High,
Who has delivered your enemies into your hand.”
And he gave him a tithe of all.
21 Now the king of Sodom said to Abram, “Give me the persons, and take the goods for yourself.”
22 But Abram said to the king of Sodom, “I have raised my hand to the LORD, God Most High, the Possessor of heaven and earth, 23 that I will take nothing, from a thread to a sandal strap, and that I will not take anything that is yours, lest you should say, ‘I have made Abram rich’— 24 except only what the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men who went with me: Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their portion.”
I don't think the Bible gives us a lot of meat toward the person except he is the King of Salem.
he was just another guy - that God approved of.
While searching Melchizadek I found this Article and thought I would share with you.
A Strange And Esoteric Cult
Esoteric Magazine may sound like cheap porno, but it is the publication of the people who believe that they are to become the order of the priests of Melchizedek mentioned in the Bible. They believe that when their membership grows to 144,000, the kingdom of God will be established on earth.
This cult has been growing for 93 years now, and they live on 320 acres on a mountaintop near Applegate, a Sierra Nevada hamlet 50 miles northeast of Sacramento, California. They live in a four-story, 18-bedroom headquarters made out of bricks they fired and timber they cut. They made their own furniture, raised their own crops, and tended herds of livestock to make themselves self-sufficient. But the community gradually died off.
Reason: One of the major beliefs is that heaven on earth will never be achieved until people quit having sex. All their doctrines is based upon belief in no sex. Obviously, groups that don't reproduce must recruit.
But the Esoterics have been unsuccessful at recruiting, partly because they don't leave home and they no longer publish. They have stacks of old literature they can send out to inquirers. Actually, the cult is down to three members. They need 143,997 more to bring in the Kingdom.
"The only thing that sustains the three of us is faith," says President Fred Peterson, who is a healthy 48. His fellow members are 65 and 79.
There are actually several cults based on the Melchizadek figure in the Bible.
Most people don't realize how many thousands of cults there are in this country, ranging from very small groups on up to larger ones.
Unknown -- but we DO know that he was Priest of God - to whom Abraham paid tithe!
and we also know that Jesus was after the order of Melchizedek (Heb. 7)
In Christian Love,
When trying to decide who Melchisedec was here is a helpful hint; He was without mother or father. Now Who could that possibly be a person without a mother or father. Give it a little fought.
Does the Bible say he had no mother or father?
I guess this one made me laugh because they are trying to get 144K members without reproduction or contact with the outside world. They're looking for a miracle. :laugh:
Also, here is the role "The only thing that sustains the three of us is faith," says President Fred Peterson, who is a healthy 48. His fellow members are 65 and 79. They need 143,997 more to bring in the Kingdom.
Heb 7 says that Christ is without beginning and without end and Christ has no true Mother or Father on earth - and that "in the story" of the OT we find this King of Salem as a Priest of God and without any mention of Mother or Father.
Of course there is also no mention of him breathing air or having a birthday or sleeping. The point is that Heb 7 is presenting the story of Melchizedek
Yeah, good luck with that! :smilewinkgrin:
They must be optimists.
Some time ago I was teaching on the Mystery of Babylon and its origin in the land of Shinar and its affiliation with Nimrod. In my study I wanted to know if Abraham was living at the same time as Nimrod because while Nimrod was building a city to God Abraham was looking for a city whose builder and maker was God. When I did my time study I established Adam at 0 years (though mature in his creation) and worked with the number of years from Adam which provided me with an interesting possibility for who Melchezedec was. For a copy of the chart (done in Excel you may PM me) but the general concensus of the study is this.
Shem would have died approximately 2053 after Adam while would have died approximately 2018 after Adam. I tried to reproduce my chart in this post but it was to big.
Based on the above chart it is possible (no conclusions here) but taken from my notes are the following...
The Son of Joktan (Jobab) falls in the time line to be Job from the book of Job though it is not noted on the chart (Genesis 10:29)
It is possible that Shem was the Melchezidek that Abram paid tithes to for Shem would have been the eldest in family. No father, no mother and no beginning of days could be a reference to the fact that there were no records or recordings of his parents or his birth do to the flood.
Shem would have died around 2053 from Adam and I believe Abraham died around 2018 from Adam.
Just remember this is merely a possible theory and not fact.:smilewinkgrin:
Is it too difficult to read the Bible and believe it as it says ?
1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; 2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; 3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. 4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils. 5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham: 6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises. 7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better. 8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
Are you claiming that Melchizedek had Father and Mother ? Are you opposing to the Bible by saying he had the end of life ?
Who can have no end of life ?
Who can live "continually" ?
Who can be King of Righteousness ?
Was he a ghost ?
This was already dealt with by another thread about several months ago.
I will show you some of the study on this.
Melichzedek in connection with Dead Sea Scrolls (1)
- What are the statements about him in the Bible?
- Who has the mainstream of the Christian people interpreted Melchizedek is ?
- What are the statements about Melchizedek in DSS?
- How have the Qumran people or the people at the time of DSS portrayed and interpreted Melchizedek ?
- What are the difference between 2 groups and what are the contribution by DSS in understanding Melchizedek?
- How are the secondary documents or literature in support of Melchizedek and DSS.?
- How is anyone in similitude of Melchizedek in the Bible?
- What are the similarities between Melchizedek and Christ
2) Bible Statements
Gen 14:18 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was the priest of God Most High. 19 And he blessed him and said: "Blessed be Abram of God Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth; 20 And blessed be God Most High, Who has delivered your enemies into your hand." And he gave him a tithe of all.
Psalm 110:4 The Lord has sworn And will not relent, "You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek."
6 As He also says in another place: "You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek
10 called by God as High Priest "according to the order of Melchizedek,"
1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2 to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated "king of righteousness," and then also king of Salem, meaning "king of peace," 3 without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually.
4 Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils.
21 (for they have become priests without an oath, but He with an oath by Him who said to Him: "The Lord has sworn And will not relent, 'You are a priest forever* According to the order of Melchizedek' "),+
There are several possibilities about the identity of Melchizedek as follows:
1) A Ghost
3) Human Being
4) Pre-Incarnate Jesus Christ having Deity
a. The first argument for a Ghost may be rejected very easily because he was the Priest for the Most High God, King of Righteousness, King of Peace, Abraham would not have paid the tithe to a ghost, Abraham would have not been blessed by a ghost, We can hardly imagine a Ghost provide Bread and Wine to Abraham. Therefore this notion is rejected relatively easily and as far as I know nobody claims this idea.
b. Angel : Could we imagine that Abraham paid the tithe to an angel? Do angels receive the tithe today? Can any angel become a Priest for the Most High God? Did Angel offer the Bread and Wine to Abraham? Can any angel be called King of Righteousness? Or King of Peace? If we limit the angel to the usual and normal angels then they are supposed to serve mankind and therefore Melchizedek cannot be an angel.
c. A type of Human Being in resemblance to Jesus Christ, Son of God.
The strongest argument from the supporter of this notion is that Melchizedek is made like unto Son of God, which means both are different persons because Resemblance means Different nature even though they are similar each other.
However, we notice Revelation 1:13 states “ one like unto the Son of man” mentioning about Jesus Christ, and again in Daniel 3:25 “ the fourth was like the Son of God” Did Daniel know about Son of God? Had he ever seen Son of God before and then said the fourth person in the fire furnace was similar to the Son of God? So, we can understand that Bible explains the same identity starting from the similitude first and saying that both are similar each other.
This view explains that No father,. No mother, No beginning, No ending as we do not know his father, do not know his mother, do not know his beginning, do not know his end of life, even though he actually had a father, a mother, beginning of the days, no end of life. However, this contradicts again that he stays as a continual Priest for the Most High God. (Heb 7:3) We should note that He abides a priest continually, and “ He lives” which is the present tense and very similar to what Jesus said “ I live, and you shall live also” John 14:19. So, if we talk with the people who claim this interpretation we can easily find out the problems and contradictions.
d. Melchizedek, The Pre-Incarnate Jesus Christ
This interpretation is often found among the Christian believers and Jewish sages. Dead Sea Scroll documents portray Melchizedek as forthcoming Messiah, to sit on the Judgment Seat as we read “Coming of Melchizedek”
In the Bible there are 2 kinds of words in Hebrew for angels, one is Elohim which
is usually used for the angels. But sometimes we notice there is another word for a
Special Angel, which is Malack. This Malack is so called Theopanic Angel which
is the appearance of God.
Resemblance can be a way of explaining the same identity in the beginning in this
One interesting points are these:
1) Psalm 76:1-2
1 In Judah is God known: his name is great in Israel. 2 In Salem also is his tabernacle, and his dwelling place in Zion.
So, the point here is that Salem is the place where God lives.
Melchizedek in connection with DSS(2)
1) King of Jerusalem
Joshua 10:1 , 3, 5 : Adonizedek king of Jerusalem
Joshua 10:23 And they did so, and brought forth those five kings unto him out of the
cave, the king of Jerusalem, the king of Hebron, the king of Jarmuth, the king of Lachish,
and the king of Eglon.
Joshua 12:10 The king of Jerusalem, one; the king of Hebron, one;
15:63 As for the Jebusites the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the children of Judah could not
drive them out: but the Jebusites dwell with the children of Judah at Jerusalem unto this
So, we can understand that Jebusites lived in Jerusalem before the Conquest by
Abraham would have not cared about Pharaoh of Egypt since he came out of Egypt as we notice in Genesis 12. He would have not cared about any king like Sodom and Gomorrah since he rescued them, and Elamites and Babylonian kings would not be the people Abraham worried about or should pay Tithe to. Any kings among Canaanites living in Jerusalem area would not be a concern or interest to Abraham very much. I don’t expect Abraham paid the Tithe to the King of Canaanites in Jerusalem.
Here we notice some difference between Jerusalem and Salem. King of Salem may not mean King of Jerusalem, but the Salem may have the same meaning as Psalm 76:2.
Bible doesn’t say that we don’t know his father and mother, but says that he has no father and no mother. Moreover he is told to be a Priest continually (Heb 7:3), then Bible says “ He liveth” while the Levi priests die. So, the word continually means forever. When we return to Heb 7:2-3, he was the King of Righteousness, King of Peace. Who can be King of Righteousness while all men are sinful and “ There is none righteous, no, not one” Romans 3:10
Then every question may be easily solved. He had no earthly father, no earthly mother, no beginning, no ending, no genealogy, remains as a continual priest, similar to Son of God ( which means that both are the same person eventually), King of Righteousness, King of Peace, Priest for the Most High God.
a. Now the question is whether Christ showed up before Incarnation, only as Melchizedek?
There are plenty of cases where Jesus Christ showed up as a Special Envoy for God;
We can see some of the cases as follows:
Genesis 22:11, 15
Genesis 31:11-13 ( The Angel said “ I am God of Bethel”)
Genesis 32:24-30 Peniel
Genesis 48:16 The Angel, The Redeemer.
Judges 13: 18 Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is Wonderful ?
22 We shall surely die, because we have seen God.
Isaiah 9:6 talks about this “Wonderful “
Isaiah prophesies about ”The Arm of Jehovah” in 53:1
Dead Sea Scrolls identifies Melchizedek as Anointed One ( Dan 9:24-26) and The Messiah.
Personally, I believe that Melchizedek was a human king. The Canaanites had some kind of knowledge of 'El'- the word for God. In Ugarit, the head of their pantheon was known as 'El' but he did things unlike the true God, like getting drunk, falling in his own vomit or excrement, etc. in their stories.
Maybe in Abraham's time there was a bit of the Noachide knowledge of God Almighty, El-Elyon or El-Shaddai left over and Melchizedek was a priest who knew God. He was also a type of Christ. Melchizedek's priesthood was recognized by God. Some think that David may have shared a bit in this priesthood since he was king in Jerusalem, like Melchizedek, but the passage about the Mechizedekian priesthood prophetically looked forward to Christ.
Noah's Sons were still alive at the time of Abraham.
If Shem lived at that time and he were the Melchizedek, could the Hebrews writer say that he was without father, without mother ( neither fatherless, nor motherless, but without father, without mother) ?
Could Shem or Japhet be a continual priest without genealogy ?
Were they King of Righteousness or King of Peace ?
Did they have no end of life ? Didn't Hebrews writer know about the lfetime of Shem or Japhet written in Genesis 11 ?
Dead Sea Scroll viewed him as Pre-Incarnate Jesus.