Who Was The Elder Son?

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by tyndale1946, May 14, 2016.

  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    We all know the parable of the prodigal son and the story is always centered on him which I can understand but who was the elder son and why was he so angry?... Shouldn't verse 31 assuage his anger... And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
    What lesson is taught and what does it mean and represent... I'm learning just like you what are your thoughts and comments... Brother Glen
    Luke 15:25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.

    15:26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.

    15:27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.

    15:28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.

    15:29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:

    15:30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.

    15:31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.

    15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
     
  2. Deacon

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    I'm doing this from memory but I think the context of the couple of parables that Jesus teaches here concerns sinners and Pharisees.
    Jesus, speaking to the sinners, is confronting the Pharisees.

    The older brother would represent the Pharisees.

    Rob
     
  3. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    Yes Rob I agree and I'm looking more into it... The prodigal son that returns to his Father who welcomes him with open arms, falls upon his neck kisses and embraces him, puts a ring on his finger and clothes him with a robe and hath killed the fatted calf (which Gill says represents Christ) comes to his right mind after he as squandered all and comes home... He has come home not realizing that the Father has forgiven all and has loved him with an everlasting love... thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found... The Pharisaic mind and heart never comes to Christ only those who are contrite and broken and realize their condition... The prodigal son who returned home was coming to receive what was coming to him... He didn't expect the mercy he received... The Father showed and gave him mercy even though he didn't deserve it... The elder son would have shown his younger brother only justice!... More later... Thanks for your comments... Brother Glen
     
    #3 tyndale1946, May 15, 2016
    Last edited: May 15, 2016
  4. Deacon

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    I haven’t looked at Gill's commentary but if you represent him accurately he is stretching the parable beyond its intended purpose. Parables are not allegories in which everything stands for something. Parable are told to push a point.

    There are three “lost” parables in this chapter of Luke; the lost sheep (15:3-7), the lost coin (15:8-10), and the lost son (15:11-32).

    The audience is sinners, with Pharisees and scribes (teachers of the law) critically listening (15:1-2).
    The context concerns Jesus eating with sinners (15:2).

    The parable of the lost son really is two stories, that of the lost son and that of the older, obedient brother.
    The father acknowledges both sons.
    He encourages the elder to reconcile with the younger.

    The simple lesson: God seeks diligently those who are lost or have strayed and he values those who seem to have little worth.

    Green, Joel B. (1997). The Gospel of Luke (p. 578ff). Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.​

    Rob
     
  5. kyredneck

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    http://www.baptistboard.com/threads...ing-on-the-lost-son.99011/page-4#post-2227870 (scroll)

    I think the simile goes beyond that to include Israel in general and their mindset (at that time) portrayed by the eldest son. The youngest son portrays the incoming of the Gentiles; bringing God's 'other sheep' into the fold.

    Compare:

    28 But he was angry, and would not go in: and his father came out, and entreated him.
    29 But he answered and said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, and I never transgressed a commandment of thine; and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends: Lu 15

    With:

    19 But I say, Did Israel not know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy with that which is no nation, With a nation void of understanding will I anger you. Ro 10

    44 And the next sabbath almost the whole city was gathered together to hear the word of God.
    45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with jealousy, and contradicted the things which were spoken by Paul, and blasphemed. Acts 13

    ....and there's many other examples. Jealousy exhibited from the firstborn to the younger is a recurring theme in the scriptures foretelling/portraying the enmity between the Jews and Christ and His infant church.

    When therefore they were gathered together, Pilate said unto them, Whom will ye that I release unto you? Barabbas, or Jesus who is called Christ? For he knew that for envy they had delivered him up. Mt 27:17,18

    ........................................................................................................

    28 But he was angry, and would not go in: and his father came out, and entreated him. Lu 15

    Reminds me of Jonah:

    10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil which he said he would do unto them; and he did it not. Jonah 3
    1 But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was angry.
    4 And Jehovah said, Doest thou well to be angry? Jonah 4
     
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  6. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    ....and there's many other examples. Jealousy exhibited from the firstborn to the younger is a recurring theme in the scriptures foretelling/portraying the enmity between the Jews and Christ and His infant church... Thanks for bring that up kyredneck that illustration had skipped my mind and it does run rampant throughout the scriptures and thanks for the link... Brother GlenThumbsup
     
  7. revmwc

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    From my post in the thread "the parable of the lost centering in on the lost son" post #65 with correction and additions.

    He spake this parable to the Pharisees and scribes. Clearly an object lesson for them. They are seen in the Elder son, they have been in their minds faithful to God. They haven't been rewarded as these publicans and sinners have, by sitting at the table and fellow shipping with Christ or being received by Him. They have been faithful in their minds, followed the rules, offered sacrifices, transcribed scripture and thought themselves faithful. They expected there works to save them and that point was driven home when Christ said the father of the prodigal stated to the older brother "thou art always with me" and they felt that was how they stood with God.
    Now we see:
    Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

    Was the elder led by the spirit to be as he was? The elder had been with the father and faithfully worked for his approval all his life, he was his fathers son. Israel had been a called out nation the Pharisees and scribes were sons of Abraham and had always been SONS of Abraham, did that make them saved? They were in their minds "always with" God always belonged to God and yet were they actually sons?
    The Prodigal represented, the Publicans, harlots and sinners that Christ accepted, for we see Luke 15:
    "1 Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.
    2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them."

    This was the reason for the Parable. The ones murmuring about the sinners being received and even having a meal with Christ to them were not saved. So too the Elder sons is the type or mirror of them, therefore unsaved by the meaning of the story. Just as the 99 sheep were lost, how do we know because they were left in the Wilderness, not in the sheepfold. Then we see this right before Christ speaks the parable of the son,
    Luke 15:
    10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

    The prodigal is the sinner that repented, is it by works no way. He came to himself we are told he realized Himself a sinner came to Christ. Very Clear how salvation works, realize you are a sinner and that God the Father formed the plan and Jesus became the sacrifice for your sin and Call upon Him for Salvation, the Holy Spirit revealing it to all through His convicting them. All God's work none mans.

    Romans 14:
    8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
    9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

    Whether saved or lost we are the Lord's, every human ever born has belonged to Him, for He died and rose and revived to be the Lord of the living (saved) and the dead (lost). We all belong to the Lord. All mankind belongs to God whether "dead in trespasses and sins" or Alive with new life from Christ" we are the Lords. But not all receive a right standing with Him because they refuse to receive Christ as their savior and they are condemned by that unbelif.
     
  8. percho

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    How about the elder son being the house of Judah and the younger son being the house of Israel?
     
  9. kyredneck

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    Lol, and there's a common misconception that Christ spoke in parables to make things easier to understand.
     
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  10. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    I agree and add this side note if this story of the prodigals son of the younger brother and the elder brother which as kyredneck says runs rampant though the scriptures does not have a way deeper understanding than what we see just on the surface what benefit is that for us?... These parables as kyredneck has stated has deeper truths than is seen with the naked eye or the natural eye but as seen with the spiritual eye the truths they convey are more glorious than we can imagine or understand... Brother Glen
     
  11. revmwc

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    Since the disciples had not yet received the indwelling Holy Spirit they too had a hard time understanding it. But we who are saved in this age have that Spirit in us and He fills is When we have aim confessed and we unlike natural men can understand spiritual things for they are not foolishness to us.
     
  12. kyredneck

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    Lol. so why so many opinions on this thread (and your other one)? You the only one here that has the Spirit?
     
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  13. revmwc

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    Nope all believers are indwelt Paul said so "what know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.
     
  14. kyredneck

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    28 But he was angry, and would not go in: and his father came out, and entreated him. Lu 15

    Jealousy/envy/enmity from those that were first towards those that were second:

    Cain/Abel
    4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And Jehovah had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
    5 but unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
    6 And Jehovah said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? Gen 4
    (see Pink on Cain & Abel)

    Ishmael/Isaac
    8 And the child grew, and was weaned. And Abraham made a great feast on the day that Isaac was weaned.
    9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, whom she had borne unto Abraham, mocking. Gen 21
    28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
    29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Gal 4

    Essau/Jacob
    41 And Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing wherewith his father blessed him. And Esau said in his heart, The days of mourning for my father are at hand. Then will I slay my brother Jacob. Gen 27

    Saul the first king/David the second king
    7 And the women sang one to another as they played, and said, Saul hath slain his thousands, And David his ten thousands.
    8 And Saul was very wroth, and this saying displeased him; and he said, They have ascribed unto David ten thousands, and to me they have ascribed but thousands: and what can he have more but the kingdom?
    9 And Saul eyed David from that day and forward. 1 Sam 18

    Concerning the firstborn/second born, it is consistent throughout the scriptures that it's actually the second born that obtains the favor of God, not the firstborn,

    It was not Cain's sacrifice that God had respect for, but it was Abel's; 'Cain was of the evil one, and slew his brother....Because his works were evil, and his brother`s righteous.' [1 Jn 3:12]

    Shem was the elder brother of Japheth, but, 'God enlarge Japheth, And let him dwell in the tents of Shem...' [Gen 10:21 ASV & 9:27]

    It was Ishmael, the firstborn, that was born after the flesh, and he persecuted Isaac, the second born, that was born after the Spirit. Isaac was the child of promise; Ishmael was cast out. [Gal 4:29]

    It was said of Esau and Jacob, 'The elder shall serve the younger. Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.' [Ro 9:12,13]

    It was not Leah his first wife that Jacob loved, but it was Rachel his second wife. [Gen 29:30,31]

    It was Ephraim the younger that Jacob blessed over his older brother Mannassah and that in spite of Joseph's objections. [Gen 48:13-20]

    It was not the first generation of the exodus that entered into the rest of the promised land, it was the second generation; 'But your little ones, that ye said should be a prey, them will I bring in, and they shall know the land which ye have rejected.' [Nu 14:31]

    It was not Saul the first king of Israel that would do all of God's will, but it was the second king David that was a man after His heart; '...Saul the son of Kish...when he had removed him, he raised up David to be their king; to whom also he bare witness and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after My heart, who shall do all My will.' [Acts 13:21,22]

    It was not the first covenant of the law ( I desire mercy, and not sacrifice) that God had pleasure in, but it was the second covenant of grace; '....a better covenant, which hath been enacted upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then would no place have been sought for a second.' [Heb 8:6,7]

    Consider 'the first man Adam' vs. 'the last Adam, ' ... that is not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; then that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is of heaven.' [1 Cor 15:45-47]
     
    #14 kyredneck, May 16, 2016
    Last edited: May 16, 2016
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  15. tyndale1946

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    amen... Amen... and AMEN!... Excellent post... My thoughts exactly!... Brother Glen
     
  16. Deacon

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