Who was the FIRST one in the Body of Christ ?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by dan p, Jul 17, 2010.

  1. dan p

    dan p
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2010
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi to all , I know that all will not agree with my premise , but I will show proof for my premise .

    All can check and see what the Greek PROTOS means !

    In 1 Tim 1:15 , Faithful (is) the Word and worthy of all reception , that Christ came into the world to save sinners , of whom I am FIRST/PROTOS .

    And 1 Tim 1:16 , But for this reason I was given mercy , in order that in ME
    FIRST/PROTOS , Christ Jesus might show forth all longsuffering for a
    PATTERN of the ones coming to believe on Him unto everlasting life .

    The Greek word translated " chief " is PROTOS , meaning FIRST , and in a seconary sense " chief " when speaking of RANK or DIGNITY , which is not the case here .

    What this passage is teaching , is that Paul was the FIRST one to be SAVED in this Dispensation of Grace , and the FIRST member of the Assembly , the Body of Christ .

    Reading v16 , Paul was a PATTERN of those following him , that would be saved and the Nation of Israel is NOT in view here at all .
     
  2. adisciplinedlearner

    adisciplinedlearner
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2010
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    0
    I understand this to mean that God started a pattern with Saul of Tarsus in being merciful and longsuffering toward zealous, religious-but-lost human beings who hate Christ and hate Christians. God could have instead justly destroyed Saul of Tarsus for the utter contempt he showed toward Christ and Christians.

    The body of Christ is a Jew/Gentile entity. It started in earnest on the Day of Pentecost when Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians were brought together in one body.
     
  3. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Messages:
    5,623
    Likes Received:
    0
    Do either one of you have any scripture to prove the church started on the day of Pentecost or with Paul??? Doesn't Matthew 16:18 prove that the church started with Christ not the Holy Spirit on Pentecost? With Christ not Paul? As far as the first members the Bible is very clear that the plural "apostles" were set first in the church (Eph. 2:20; I Cor. 12:28) and that occurred BEFORE Pentecost as the empty office vacated by Judas was being filled BEFORE Pentecost (Acts 1:15-26).
     
    #3 Dr. Walter, Jul 17, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2010
  4. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    In I Cor 15, Paul described himself as one born out of due time, but identified himself with the apostles and with the 500, and claimed to have been the last one to seen the risen Christ personally. His claim to apostleship was based on the same criteria required of the other apostles. He had seen him, and had been personally appointed by the Christ.

    I know, I know, that's that "dispensation of grace." But how could he have been the first one? He's way more than 3000 behind, seems to me. Philip preached in Samaria and people were saved. Philip witnessed to the eunuch and the Lord saved him. And before that, Acts 6:7 says the number of disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, including a whole bunch of priests.

    But that's beside the point. Jesus established his church during his ministry. His traveling congregation, which eventually settled at Jerusalem, had everything before Pentecost that it had afterward. A Head, a commission, officers, ordinances, and power.
     
  5. dan p

    dan p
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2010
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    0
    There were not Gentiles Christians at Pentecost !!

    [

    The body of Christ is a Jew/Gentile entity. It started in earnest on the Day of Pentecost when Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians were brought together in one body.[/QUOTE]

    Hi , and WHERE is a verse that proves that ASSUMPTION that there were Gentile Christians at Pentecost ???
     
  6. dan p

    dan p
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2010
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    0
    Born out of due Time ?>?

     
  7. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    Brother dan p, I must admit that I am confused and obviously rather dense.

    For the life of me I cannot see how any of the scripture verses you quoted prove your point. And I definitely do not see how the one I quoted (1 Cor 15:6) proves your point and not mine.

    The events of Acts appear on their face to disprove your contention that Paul was the first one saved in the "newly-formed" body of Christ.

    I have read and re-read your posts in this thread. I'm wondering if I'm the only one who cannot make sense of them.
     
  8. dan p

    dan p
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2010
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    0
    I cannot see ?

    Hi Tom Butler , and if this the first time that you have heard this explaination , DO NOT FEEL DENSE .

    It took me a long time also . I was a SO Baptist for over 10 years , before I realized what Paul was saying , so just keep studying . Trust me , when I say that there many Dispensationalist , even with in the So Baptist assemblies , for I have met them . Read Eph 3:-9 ; Col 1;25 ; 1 Cor 9:17 .

    Our Assemblies has more memebers outside the USA and we have 3 Grace Colleges in OREGON and in St Louis and in Grand Rapids . I am not alone !

    When you see what Eph 3:5 means , you will be on your way . I will be back the 25 of Sep . if you have any questions ?
     
  9. RAdam

    RAdam
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,100
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dispensational teaching is the most confusing thing I've ever tried to understand. It leads to nothing but confusion. The simplest sections of scripture become confusing. The simplest doctrines become confusing. People who are subject to this erroneous teaching become confused.

    Instead of going to the bible with an assumption that there is a difference between Peter and Paul, between Jewish believers and Gentile believers, etc, why not go the bible and see what it says. It clearly says there is one Lord, one church, one gospel, one baptism, etc.
     
  10. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Dispensationalism is easy to understand. No need to slam it.
    What is confusing is "dan p." His grammar is atrocious. He has bad spelling, and his theology is confusing at best. That, put bluntly, makes his posts confusing to read. It had nothing to do with dispensationalism--I don't even know if he is a dispensationalist.
     
    #10 DHK, Jul 19, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2010
  11. RAdam

    RAdam
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,100
    Likes Received:
    0
    People who advocate a system where Peter taught one thing, Paul another, the church is one thing, the body of Christ another, these believers followed the Mosaic Law, the gentiles didn't, and so forth and so on is bringing confusion to the bible. That is confusing. I don't care how well one presents it, it is confusing.
     
  12. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Yes that would be confusing. Tell me, who teaches that? I am dispensational. And I don't teach that.
     
  13. adisciplinedlearner

    adisciplinedlearner
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2010
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    0
    Proselyte Jews (Gentiles who had converted to Judaism) very likely were among the 3,000 people who were converted on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:10). If this is so, then the Jew/Gentile entity (Eph. 3:1-9) known as the body of Christ began on the Day of Pentecost.
     
  14. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Messages:
    5,623
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Body of Christ is not dependent upon any mixture of races or genders for its existence. It can be the body of Christ at Jerusalem before Pentecost with Jewish members only or the body of Christ at Jerualem with Jewish and gentile members. However, the church or the body of Christ did not begin on Pentecost and there is not one scripture that states that or demands that.
     
  15. RAdam

    RAdam
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,100
    Likes Received:
    0
    The disciples of Jesus were already meeting together in one accord before Pentecost. On that day 3,000 were added to them, added to the disciples already meeting together in one accord. The church already existed prior to Pentecost, but now the Holy Ghost has been poured out upon them and great numbers have been brought in and added to those already part of the congregation.
     
  16. adisciplinedlearner

    adisciplinedlearner
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2010
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    0
    There is no evidence that the body of Christ existed before the Day of Pentecost, is there?
     
  17. RAdam

    RAdam
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,100
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes there is. They were meeting together in one accord before Pentecost it says in Acts 1. Luke 24 tells us where they were meeting: in the temple. At the ends of Acts 2 it tells us that there were added unto them 3,000 souls. Added unto, as in the body already existed and now people were added to that body. It didn't come into existence, else the scripture would have used different terms. After there were added to them 3,000 souls, they are said to continue meeting together in one accord in the temple.

    Ok, so we have a group of people meeting together in one accord in the temple prior to Pentecost. We have a people meeting together in one accord in the temple after Pentecost, only now there have been people added to them. Sounds like the same institution that existed after Pentecost, existed before Pentecost.
     
  18. adisciplinedlearner

    adisciplinedlearner
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2010
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    0
    When did the New Covenant take effect? Were the people assembling before the Day of Pentecost a New Covenant church? That is, did they live under the Old Covenant or under the New Covenant?
     
  19. RAdam

    RAdam
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,100
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let me ask you a question. Were Jesus and John the Baptist preachers of the new covenant or old covenant?
     
  20. adisciplinedlearner

    adisciplinedlearner
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2010
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    0
    They preached a New Covenant gospel and practiced New Covenant baptism, but this was in preparation for the coming of the New Covenant era upon the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. John and Jesus lived under the Old Covenant.
     

Share This Page

Loading...