Who Was the First Sinner?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by InTheLight, Jan 20, 2013.

  1. InTheLight

    InTheLight
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  2. Bronconagurski

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    Satan sinned first, then Eve, but Adam is credited with bringing sin into the world. Adam should have stopped Eve from eating as he was right there with her and was not deceived as she was. Furthermore, all beings, including Eve, came into this world through Adam, so he is our representative.
     
  3. Winman

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    Adam was imputed with sin because he KNEW what he was doing. Eve was not imputed sin because she was deceived like a little child.

    Jam 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

    God does not hold someone who truly does not understand what sin is accountable. God did not punish the Jewish children when their parents sinned in the wilderness, because they did not know between good and evil and allowed them to enter the Promised Land, a figure of Heaven.

    Deu 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

    Paul said sin is not imputed when there is no law. This would also include when a person does not yet understand the law. This is why Paul tells us in Romans 7 when he came to know the law he spiritually died. But before that he was spiritually alive.

    Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
    8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
    9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
    10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
    11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

    In verse 7 Paul tells us he would have not known what sin is, except by the law. He tells us that without the law, sin is dead, it has no power.

    In verse 9 he tells us he was once alive, but when the commandment came, that is, when he learned the law, sin revived and he died. Paul is speaking of spiritual death, so obviously he was spiritually alive before.

    Paul thought the law would bring eternal life, but he discovered that it brought death, because it convicted him of his sin.

    Sin took advantage of the law and used the law to slay Paul.

    You have to understand the law to be guilty. This is why we do not prosecute little children, or insane people.
     
  4. SaggyWoman

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    Are we pointing fingers?
     
  5. Alcott

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    Yes. Toes, too, maybe. The legacy of sin includes finger-pointing [guilt transferral]. God blamed Adam, Adam blamed Eve, Eve blamed the serpent... and the serpent didn't have a leg to stand on.
     
  6. HeirofSalvation

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    Satan, then Eve, then Adam.
     
  7. saturneptune

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    Win, place and show
     
  8. InTheLight

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    Yes, a literal reading of the text yields this result and I don't see any other way to interpret it.

    I posit the question because it could affect some theological positions. For example:

    1. God cannot look upon sin. Or the corollary--sin cannot be in the presence of God. But Satan "sinned from the beginning" and we see in Job that Satan visited with God. Also in Genesis 6 we read, "Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." So apparently God can look upon sin and sin has been in his presence.

    2. "No death before sin". This one is used by YECers to 'prove' that there can be no evolution because by necessity evolution requires carnivores which requires animal death and that goes against Romans 5:12. BUT, if Satan had sinned from the beginning, that is, before Adam and Eve, and we know that Satan has free reign over the earth (Job 1:7, John 12:31, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2, 1 Peter 5:8), then sin was on the earth before Adam and Eve sinned. If sin was on the earth before A&E, then doesn't that allow the possibility of animal death before Adam and Eve's sin? Also Romans 5:12 says that death came to all men because of Adam and doesn't say anything about animal death.

    Thoughts?
     
    #8 InTheLight, Jan 21, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2013
  9. percho

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    Without a doubt. Satan and death were on the earth. and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep.

    The darkness equals Satan and death. God the Light says let there be light upon the earth and divided the light from the darkness.

    The Light, Day, Morning God equaling twelve hours that if you walk in you will not stumble.
    The darkness, night, evening Satan equaling twelve hours that if you walk in you will stumble.

    The evening and the morning were the first day.

    John 11:9,10 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world. But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.
     
  10. convicted1

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    :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
  11. matthew.nelson

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    The Darkness of the Deep

    I had never thought of that. "darkness was upon the face of the deep" Considering the darkness satan and death doesnt seem quite right though.
    God cannot be in the presence of sin. The second part of verse 2 says that the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. If the darkness was sin and the darkness was the deep waters or what have you, then how could the 2 be in the same place at the same time?
    In verse 4 and 5 God separated the darkness from the light and called the light good. He did not necessarily call the darkness good but can God create Evil? no I dont think that he can.

    However, I do think that Satan had to have sinned first. He had to have fallen before he could have caused Eve to be tempted.
     
  12. percho

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    Why do you think they are separated and the light called good. God brings his presence back to a place it had been removed from separates himself from Satan calls himself day, morning and the darkness Satan he calls night, the evening.

    And the evening and the morning were the first 24 hr period without benefit of Sun and moon and stars.

    What was the cause of without form and void and darkness upon the face of the earth? Sin?
     

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