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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by trustitl, Dec 8, 2007.
Who were the first Christians?
Do you mean who were the 12 apostles, or the larger group of disciples? Or do you mean where they were first called Christians? (In Antioch, I think.)
What are you driving at?
Basically what the question asks, not when were they first called by that name. In order to answer one needs to have a defintion of what a Christian is so this discussion is really about what makes a Christain a Christian.
Hope that helps. Thanks for asking.
A common mistake today is to classify every believer as a Christian. Only those who are "like Christ" can be accurately called Christians. The suffix -ian refers to a smaller part of the whole. It means "relating to" or "resembling" the original. I am from Illinois. I can accurately be referred to as an Illinoisan. I am a small part of the whole state.
Not all the saved are reflecting the image of Christ. Jesus clearly stated that not all can be His disciples.
Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luke 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
Only those who truly follow Christ can be His disciple. The true disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.
Christ -- is Greek for Messiah.
All God's people in the OT beliving in and waiting for the Messiah were in fact Christians.
All who are saved -- OT or NT "are Christs".
in 1thess 4 when it says "those who are CHRISTS" are raised at His appearing - it speaks to ALL saints in ALL time.
The 1st Christians were the one right before the 2nd Christians. :laugh: And so, who were those 2nd Christians?
Bob, are you saying that all the saved are Christ's or Christs? There is a big difference.
To what verse are you referring?
1. First, Acts 11:26 says the disciples were first called Christians---there's no mention here of "true."
2. Do you suppose that all the believers at Antioch were genuine believers? Don't you think that there were some immature believers there too? Wouldn't they still be called Christians?
3. What is the true origin of the name "Christian"? Is it divine or secular?
Disciple is a student - a follower, one who seeks live like and be like the master.
Your statement is good except you seem to be saying that there is a way of salvation apart from following Christ when you say "not all the saved are disciples of Christ".
Not sure where that is coming from - please explain.
Who among the saved would refuse to follow Christ?
Will someone be dragged screaming and kicking into heaven?
Sorry - "Apostrophe" was left out by mistake.
All the saved are Christ's.
(big difference is right!)
Ahhrghh - I stand corrected yet again!!
1Thess 4 makes the point this way
"The dead IN CHRIST shall rise first".
It is 1Cor 15 that makes the case
"Those who ARE CHRIST's at His coming".
20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.
21 For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits[/b], after that those who are Christ's at His coming[/b],
24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, [b]when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.
26 The [b]last enemy that will be abolished is death.
Should have included them both and I clearly forgot that 1Thess 4 does not include the 1Cor 15 language.
Good catch -- "again"!!
(I am gettin' "shooled" here)
I thought Christ meant "annointed one" in Greek. Does anybody have a source that I could go to to find out. I also thought that Christian means "little christ". I found this supported in a lot of quotes on the web but wondered if anybody knew of a more reputable sources.
I would question the idea that not every believer is a "Christian" in the sense we use the word. Saying only those who are like Christ get than name, in my opinion would in reality negate everybody having the name.
I'm not saved because I'm like Christ. I'm not even like Christ because I'm saved. I am saved because I am IN Christ.
Since these disciples, in their lifestyle, were compared to Jesus Christ, we can be certain that these were not just casual followers. These were true disciples. These were serious about their stand for Christ.
The text doesn't say the "believers" were called Christians. It clearly says this designation was for the "disciples."
Does it make a difference?
Are you asserting that all believers have this desire? I can name several that I know of that do not.
Following Christ is not salvation. Judas followed Christ. Jesus Himself, speaking to His followers, said that not all can be his disciples.
All twelve disciples forsook Him. All of us fail to follow Him at times. Salvation begins a process of sanctification and consecration and Holy Spirit conforming us to the very image of Christ.
1. I'm not too sure I want to make such a case for the word disciple here--for example, many of Jesus' disciples quit following him (John 6:66).
2. Was its Luke intent to tell us that these disciples were to be understood as true followers of Christ?
3. I understand that, but neither does it use "true." I know you are trying to make a case, but I don't see it.
4. If it's secular, then it was filtered through a secular mind.
"Messiah" means annointed one - in Hebrew.
Judas is a good example of someone who did not follow Christ and was not saved.
Your argument is that some ARE saved and yet do not follow Christ.
The fact that Peter fell is not an indication that Like Judas -- he simply was not a true disciple - sold out for Christ.
I find it hard to put them both in the same condition and claim that one was a saved - non-disciple. Christ was clear that they had to be all in -- or all out... nothing half-way was "in".
That did not mean that those who followed Christ would never err.
Let me try asking it this way: When did the new covenant start?
New Covenant IS the Gospel - it offers forgiveness through Christ alone.
"I will be their God -- I Will forgive their sins"
Gal 1:6-11 says there is only ONE gospel - and that is in fact the "New Covenant".
So it begins outside the gates of Eden and Adam is the first one to enter it.
ALL the saints in Heb 11 are saved through the one and only gospel - the New Covenant
Those in acts chapter 2..........