Who were the "Nephilim?"

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by USN2Pulpit, Oct 27, 2004.

  1. USN2Pulpit

    USN2Pulpit
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    Genesis 6:4 - The Nephilim were on the earth in those days — and also afterward — when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.NIV

    So who exactly were these giants?
     
  2. Marcia

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    We had a discussion on this not that long ago - I think it was on 2 separate threads here. Do a search and you will probably see all the possible answers anyone could give. I think they were just giants, and not half-breeds of fallen angels and women. But many disagree.
     
  3. michelle

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    These are the verses in the KJB:


    Genesis 6

    1. And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
    2. That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
    3. And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
    4. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
    5. And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
    6. And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.


    I believe that the sons of God is referring to Angels, that left their first habitation or estate, and they went in unto the daughters of men, and produced children called Nephilum, which were giants in those days. I believe this is what caused wickedness to increase in those days, and to why God destroyed all, save Noah and his family.


    Some others believe that this is referring to the bloodlines of Seth being mixed in with those of Cain. I find this one harder to believe, as this would not cause:

    There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown


    I think the "the same" is referring back to the sons of God, who were mighty men, of old, and renown - fallen angels.


    I could be wrong, but this is how I have understood this. I believe Jesus Christ said, that prior to his return, that it will be like in the days of Noah. This could very well be referring to aliens and Ufo's, and mary apparitions, etc, to which are really the fallen angels who are decieving mankind, and causing/encouraging wickedness to increase among the children of men and quite possibly exists again the children of the sons of God - nephilum (seed of the serpent). It could be referring to possession, rather than actual offspring, however, this I do not know. I just see this as a great possiblity.


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  4. Johnv

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    I don't think they'd be angels, because angels aren't generally attributed to having physical bodies (appearance of men, sometimes, but not being men themselves). Typically, the phrase "sons of God" in the OT referrs to the obedient men of God. Presuming that this is the case here, it makes sense that their offspring are referred to as "mighty men" and "men of renown". And, if you think about it, you have a generational story here which goes from generations of righteous men to generations of unrighteous men, which of course sets up the prologue for the Noah story. And that's the crux of the account: not what the origins of "sons of men" were, but the setup the Flood account. It's the Flood account that is the centerpoint here, not the origin of "sons of men".

    Just my $.02.
     
  5. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    I don't think they'd be angels, because angels aren't generally attributed to having physical bodies (appearance of men, sometimes, but not being men themselves). Typically, the phrase "sons of God" in the OT referrs to the obedient men of God. Presuming that this is the case here, it makes sense that their offspring are referred to as "mighty men" and "men of renown".
    --------------------------------------------------


    If this were the case, then how come wickedness increased, God repented that he created man, and the flood to destroy ALL but Noah and his family came soon afterward?


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  6. AVL1984

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    We do know that Mt 22:30 says that the angels in Heaven (not those who fell) neither marry nor are given in marriage. We also know that in their original form, angels are spirit beings, without human bodies. There have been several positions on this, one being the position that Michelle has taken. If these fallen angels did take on the form of a human body, or were allowed to indwell a human body (possession), it could possibly explain the giants in the earth, and the mighty men. This would have totally corrupted the blood lines, therefore making it pretty near impossible to have a line for Christ to be born in.

    Then there is the position that many hold, too, that they are the lines of Seth and Cain. Again, Cain, having rejected God's way, could have been empowered by satanic forces. We know that in demon possessions, people are greatly empowered to several times their own human strenth, though the angel/demon itself does not have a human body. It is also possible that Cain's line built super strength in other ways, as we see today with natural/herbal steroidals, etc.

    There are really too many variables to be sure. Even the doctrines books I learned from in college do not agree on whom these two lines were. (Emery H. Bancroft "Christian Theology" and Thomas Paul Simmons "A Systematic Study of Bible Doctrine")
     
  7. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    Then there is the position that many hold, too, that they are the lines of Seth and Cain. Again, Cain, having rejected God's way, could have been empowered by satanic forces. We know that in demon possessions, people are greatly empowered to several times their own human strenth, though the angel/demon itself does not have a human body. It is also possible that Cain's line built super strength in other ways, as we see today with natural/herbal steroidals, etc.
    -----------------------------------------------------


    But AVL, I have heard that it could have been fallen angels that left their first estate (heaven), and produced offspring/children with the daughters of men, and this offspring are the Nephilim, to which when they died, their spirits were the "demons" as these were not pure men, but mixed with angelic/human, which was not ordained of, nor created by God, but in fact rebellion against God and his creation. There are angels (in a body and spirit) and then demons (spirits only) and that it is these demons also that can possess mankind. Of course, this is speculation, and I am not dogmatic about it, but I find this most likely out of all.


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  8. AVL1984

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    You're welcome to your opinion on the subject, Michelle. The Bible isn't totally clear on this particular subject. I already read your statement of what you believed it to be. I just gave several positions that are held by people.
     
  9. Johnv

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    I think that the whole thing comes down to sheer conjecture. Since scripture doesn't delve into it any more than a brief verse that is only there to serve as a backstory to a more significant biblical account. In short, it's not pertinent to us today, so we're not supposed to know.
     
  10. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    I think that the whole thing comes down to sheer conjecture. Since scripture doesn't delve into it any more than a brief verse that is only there to serve as a backstory to a more significant biblical account. In short, it's not pertinent to us today, so we're not supposed to know.
    --------------------------------------------------

    True, but it is at least interesting to talk about, and to try to get a grasp somewhat of what happened, because we see that Jesus said that prior to his return, the days would be like in the days of Noah. I also find it interesting in light of the "cloning" research and desire of it for some today in this respect, along with multitudes of people who see UFO's and claim alien abductions, etc.


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  11. AVL1984

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    I agree, John. It was still a good point of debate at college, though. At least it was used to get people thinking and studying. ;)
     
  12. michelle

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    And on the other side, we see that many today are looking to geneology and bloodlines, specifically pertaining to the Jews and the Arabs.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  13. Johnv

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    Sure, it's an interesting topic, but so long as it's light hearted, we don't run the danger of possibly writing new doctrine (common amongst end times discussions).

    Well, as far as cloning, it's always something. Today it's cloning, yesterday it was atm cards, before that it was the computer, before that it was the cotton gin. As far as UFO's and alien abductions, these have been claimed since the days of Ezekiel, and none have ever been substantiated, except in the minds of people. I know of two cases here in SoCal that turned out to be a clear case of mass hysteria when viewed from the outside, but people on the inside will insist on believing what they want to believe.
     
  14. michelle

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    I believe that there are things happening, or occuring more often today, than in days previous, as the time is getting closer for the return of our Lord, and we see Israel is again a nation - and the most accounts of UFO sightings in the world has been in the middle east, specifically around Jerusalem. I believe Jesus warned us to watch and be sober. There of course are many cooks out there, claiming things that are just emotional and delusional. However, there are many others that do not fit this label, and it is worth looking at. I find that this has increased in years and something is going on. The theory of evolution that is taught as fact today, does not help matters. Rather than telling someone that they are delusional, which I do not see as the case in a majority of cases, I would rather have a biblical answer for them.


    Cloning is absolutely wrong, and the interesting thing to discuss about this, is that where does the soul of this clone come from? It could be very well a means by which demons could possess it.


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  15. AVL1984

    AVL1984
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    Another question is, would a clone even have a soul?
    There are many theologians who believe they would not.

    Also, on the UFO sightings, Michelle stated that the highest concentration is in the Middle East around Jerusalem. The following states otherwise:

    "June 24, 2002 According to figures released today in London, England, Scotland has the highest concentration of UFO sightings in the world, with close to 300 being spotted in Scotland every year, four times the rate of France or Italy, the two other UFO hot spots on the planet, and for the size of the country, that's saying quite alot, since the entire United States plays host to about 2,000 UFOs a year spread throughout the country. Seems the town of Bonnybridge, 30 miles west of Edinburgh, is the favorite place for UFOs to cruise through. One official has called for the town to be twinned with Roswell, N.M., the U.S. UFO capital. Maybe they have a favorite water-siphoning hole there....or the ley line energy is really good to refuel on.....maybe they just want to tip their wings to all those Earthlings who turn out to wave hello, take their photo, get sunburned on one side of their face. Couldn't hurt." Credit to: http://www.moonbowmedia.com/osotm/scot-ufo.htm

    But, yes, both of these subjects are mind jolting.
     
  16. michelle

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    Maybe it is not the place to see the most in the world, as I had stated, but it definately has seen an increase.


    Here is a link about the increase of sightings/abductions, etc. in Israel:


    http://www.greatdreams.com/chamish.htm


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  17. AVL1984

    AVL1984
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    Thanks for the link. I would have to have a more credible source than Chamish. I haven't been able to find any legitimate documentation of that big of an increase in Israel or the Middle East as a whole, except for maybe Iran.
     
  18. michelle

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    Here is a link that I have read in part, regarding this topic. This person is a saved christian, and I recommend you read his testimony and doctrinal foundation to be sure. I think this book is very interesting, and informative, ecspecially considering his own experience with this phenomena. I haven't read the whole thing yet, only glanced over the topics being discussed, but what I read in part, I tend to agree with.


    Here is the link, in case you are at all interested:

    http://www.aliensinthebible.com/


    May the Lord bless you all richly.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  19. AVL1984

    AVL1984
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    Good link, Michelle. He has some good points. But, again, it's his opinion. Many still do not hold to the view that it's angels. I did a paper in 1993 on the subject and came to the conclusion that there were several positions that had valid points. It is good subject matter, though, to keep one thinking, searching the Word, etc.
     
  20. michelle

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    Yes, I agree, there are valid points made on both sides. Who knows, maybe both are true? I agree, it does keep us focused upon the word of truth, and keeping us always focused upon, and waiting patiently for our Lord to call us home. It can also be a tool used to open up discussion and sharing the gospel with others, as many more today have an increased interest in this phenomena.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     

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