Who were the "Nephilim?"

I know the Book of Enoch is not considered inspired scripture, but it backs the "fallen angel" theory of the sons of God and is quite an interesting read. I tend to agree with that theory also. I listened to sermons by a baptist preacher in Pennsylvania who researched this thoroughly... going back into Sumerian history, Hebrew language interpretation, archeology and the likes. He presented a case so strong for the sons of God being fallen angels that I am almost convinced that is the case. For me, it brings a whole new light to the old testament...actually seems to make it even more interesting than it already is.

I agree, its sure an interesting subject!!

Todd

 

tfisher, would that preacher in PA possibly be Rev. Doug Hammett?

 

Well, if the Nephilim are fallen angels and the reason for the flood, then you have the problem of them reappearing after the flood, and then apparently disappearing altogether. And why in the world would the composer of Genesis call these demon children "men of renown" in Gen. 6? If he knew the truth of them, and we assume that he did, he could have chosen a different word here. Is it certain that the sons of God in Job 1 & 2 are angels? Could they be men who came before and went out from the presence of the Lord, as did Cain (Gen. 4:16)? Compare the construction in Gen. 4:16 with Job; they are quite similar. There is no doubt that early interpretation and tradition consider the sons of God to be angels, but much of this can be linked to the very early LXX's translation of bene haelohim as "angels" in Gen. 6. Unless inspired prophets translated the LXX (which has its own set of significant difficulties, such as material found in no extant Hebrew MSS, etc.), then at best it reflects an individual or perhaps regional interpretation of the phrase, "sons of God", from a very early time that could have influenced all interpretation thereafter, as the LXX was THE Old Testament of the dispersed Jews, early church, etc.

1 Pet. 3:19 does not help the case, because a very natural reading is that Jesus simply preached in the Spirit through Noah the "preacher of Righteousness" (2 Pe. 2:5) "when" they (who were spirits at Peter's time of writing) formerly disobeyed, “in" the days of Noah, “when" the patience of God was waiting, and “during" the building of the ark. Time's not a factor for Jesus, and it seems this is exactly what Peter is describing.

2 Pe. 2:4-5 does not provide the necessary link either, for these verses describe similar events demonstrating God's justice: (1) the sinful angels were cast down to Tartarus; (2) the sinful generation in Noah's day all perished. If the angels were cast to Tartarus, then who are the Nephilim after the flood? Did more angels sin and molest women? But we also need to know why fallen angels are active on earth today. Did God only send some of them to Tartarus, and others can roam free? Or is Tartarus only a figurative word for "holding cell" so to speak. Maybe the earth itself is this holding cell, who knows?

Jude 6 is similar, the angels who left their habitation are in everlasting chains until the judgment day. Everlasting chains is figurative for being in a holding cell, so to speak, probably Tartarus (whateve that is).

If Jesus saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven, and if Satan and all his followers were all cast down to the earth (Rev. 12:9), perhaps Tartarus after all is our own little earth, and that's why Satan and his demons are active today, but they're only in a holding cell waiting for certain destruction.

The abyss to which the demons begged Jesus not to cast them, well, I think that is the final place for Satan, the lake of fire itself. Those demons wanted to stay in the holding cell and live out their evil schemes for a short while longer.

Yours,

Bluefalcon

 

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If Jesus saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven, and if Satan and all his followers were all cast down to the earth (Rev. 12:9), perhaps Tartarus after all is our own little earth, and that's why Satan and his demons are active today, but they're only in a holding cell waiting for certain destruction.
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First of all, the word Tartarus is not in my English scriptures and I do not know what this word is, but only Hell or the bottomless pit and the Lake of Fire. What do you mean by tartarus? Satan and his angels are YET TO BE CAST OUT OF HEAVEN, as is evidenced and plainly and clearly indicated in the book of Revelation chapter 12. This will happen in the middle of the 70th week of Daniel. And yes, it is very possible, that those who were the Nephilum, or the offspring of this ungodly, and rebellious union, were destroyed in the flood, and the hybrid souls (if one could call them that) are now roaming the earth as demons, who in fact possess man, and those angels who left there first habitation, were also destroyed in the flood and now also roaming or in the pit. Hell is the prison, or holding place for the souls of men, that have been separated from God, awaiting their resurrected bodies, to which will be cast into the Lake of Fire. It is quite possible that not all the angels who have followed Satan, did this very thing, but it is also possible, that many of them could continue to do such a thing. I do not know, and it is not very clear, but all this make perfect sense to me, rather than believing this was referring to obediant men of God, as we see this wasn't the case, as men continued to wax worse in wickedness, to which caused God to repent that He created man, and brought the judgement of the flood to destroy all but Noah and his family. Satan was, I think, trying to destroy the bloodline that Jesus Christ would come from, in order to thwart the plan of God for salvation.

I highly recommend a book by Chuck Missler called "Alien Encounters". It is very informative, and explains this topic pretty well, if you so desire to learn more about this from my point of view. Of course, I could very well be wrong, as this is speculation, but to me, this makes the most sense in light of all biblical truth and what we see in society, and history also relating to aliens.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

No, it is Jim Hollandsworth of the Victory Baptist Church in Chester Springs, PA... He is preaching a series called "Mining the Word" where he is preaching straight through the Bible. It is an IBF church. There is so much evidence that he uses to prove his theory sons of God theory to be Angels. Maybe I will try to see if I can get some of it put together for a post. I have some of the tapes from his sermons (which I think can be had on sermonaudio.com) and will have to re-listen and take notes!

Todd

 

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Maybe I will try to see if I can get some of it put together for a post. I have some of the tapes from his sermons (which I think can be had on sermonaudio.com) and will have to re-listen and take notes!
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Hiya Todd! I would love to read it, and be very interested in anything you had to post on it. I look forward to it. Thanks.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

I do know a few things that Jim points out are that the use of the term "perfect" in regards to Noah was not because of his righteousness, which was recognized by the Lord, but "perfect" is used in reference to a "untainted" specimen. Such as a lamb to be used for sacrifice. His study of the hebrew word showed that its the same word for "perfect" was used when referring to finding a lamb that had no blemish. Noah's bloodline was untainted by this intertwining of the fallen angels and women which produced these giants called Nephalim.
Another point he talked about was that when the Bible spoke of "strange flesh", it was referring to "flesh of a different kind" (like I said, he refers to the hebrew words which I don't have in front of me). He believes this is why the Sodomites in the story of Lot wanted to "know" the men that came to see Lot. They knew of the Nephalim, and wanted to also reproduce with the angels so they could produce these "men of reknown".
He agrees that this also happened "after the days of Noah" and that is why Joshua and others were to completely annihilate certain peoples. He references uses of the suffix "im" in words such as "nephaliam", Rephaim, Anakim as all referring to these giants. He believes most of mythology and worshipping of false gods started due to the people beginning in early civilization worshipping these giants not only because of their size, but their vast knowledge of physics and such. He goes on to show that civilization was very advanced technologically during that time, in part due to the teachings of these nephalim and such in the area of physics, science. They would have had much more knowledge of these things as their "fathers" would have a much better understanding of the earth, creation and physics in general.

definately interesting...he points all this back to Satan and his attempting to corrupt the bloodline of humans so their would not be a clean bloodline for Christ to come and redeem us. He (satan) FAILED!! I agree with Michelle, when you start researching this theory, you can see Satan trying to literally stop and defeat God from the very beginning, throughout the old testament, all the way to the cross.

Todd

 

Thanks for sharing that information with us Todd! It was very interesting, and makes a lot of sense. I appreciate that, and very much enjoyed it.


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

I just wondered, because Bro. Hammett used to be one of my professors at Fellowship Baptist College. He's at LeHigh Valley Baptist, I think.
I would be interested in reading what your preachers got on it. It's an interesting subject.

 

First of all, I'm not sure what Peter meant when he used the adverbial participal in 2 Pe. 2:4 TARTARWSAS, the only time it appears in Scripture: "by casting (them) to Tartarus", "when casting (them) to Tartarus", or whatever you desire, although I think the instrumental adverbial (i.e. "by") works most naturally here. So one must decide what Peter meant when he used this word, and why he decided not to use "hell" or "lake of fire" or the "abyss" or any other more clear word that he could have used.

So Satan and his minions are free to wonder about heaven as they please? Wow! First of all, the time frame of John's vision in Revelation is not always clear. We need to remember that it is, after all, a vision. Who is the pregnant woman in Rev. 12 who gives birth to the one who will rule the nations with a rod of iron? If it is Christ, then already the strict time frame you prefer is askew. Rev. 12:4, the dragon drew 1/3 of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth, and then stood ready to devour the woman. Well, I take this to mean that he stood ready to devour "Israel" as soon as the Christ child was born. The "woman" was "pregnant" with the Christ child since Gen. 3:15, and if Abel was the child then Satan through Cain took care of him, and this trail is seen throughout the O.T. The anticipation that each O.T. king is this Great Ruler is dashed with, "and he died and slept with his fathers," etc.

As for this "purity of Noah in all his generations" referring to lack of molestation by angels, well, if the whole world was overcome with demon children, why didn't the composer of Genesis just say so? All he talks about umpteen different times is the corruption of MAN, and he certainly could have clarified the issue if he wanted to. Purity here most likely refers to worshipping of the one and only true God.

Gotta go! Sorry.

Yours,

Bluefalcon

 

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So Satan and his minions are free to wonder about heaven as they please? Wow! First of all, the time frame of John's vision in Revelation is not always clear. We need to remember that it is, after all, a vision. Who is the pregnant woman in Rev. 12 who gives birth to the one who will rule the nations with a rod of iron? If it is Christ, then already the strict time frame you prefer is askew. Rev. 12:4, the dragon drew 1/3 of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth, and then stood ready to devour the woman. Well, I take this to mean that he stood ready to devour "Israel" as soon as the Christ child was born. The "woman" was "pregnant" with the Christ child since Gen. 3:15, and if Abel was the child then Satan through Cain took care of him, and this trail is seen throughout the O.T. The anticipation that each O.T. king is this Great Ruler is dashed with, "and he died and slept with his fathers," etc.
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Take a look at this:


3. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8. All these are the beginning of sorrows.


John 16

21. A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.


1 Thessalonians 5

1. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10. Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
11. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.


Revelation chapter 12 is all about the tribulation period, that is the 70th week of Daniel, meant for the redemption of Israel. Rev. 12 is speaking of the woman who is Israel, who is about to give birth - that is, she is about to finally recieve and acknowledge Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. In other words, they will be saved. There is a war that takes place in Heaven between the dragon and his angels, and Michael and his angels. Michael is the archangel of Israel. He is fighting the dragon and wins. The dragon takes 1/3 of the angels with him and they are then cast to the earth - see Isaiah 13 and 14. This coincides with the middle of the 70th week, just AFTER the two witnesses in Jerusalem are caught up to heaven before them. This is the mid point, and when the antichrist is possessed by Satan, and exhalts himself above all that is God, and blasphemies God and all those in heaven. This is where the mark of the beast is taken, and all who did not take this mark will be killed. This is where the antichrist goes after those saved Jews. The birth being spoken of is about Israel being born again, and thus God's promise in that regard will be fulfilled: All Israel shall be saved. She is taken into safety for 3 1/2 years from the wrath of the dragon, and until the Lord returns.


We should ALWAYS take God's word literally, and understand in the literal sense the metaphorical words to describe the literal events. So in short, yes, the angels can and do roam the earth, and heaven. Their judgement has not yet come.


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Have fun!

http://www.returnofthenephilim.com/

Caution: sound and super graphics (1024 x 768 is best).

HankD

 

Hank,


Thanks for the link. I may be really stupid, but I cannot seem to open up any of the articles. I can see the titles, but there seems to be no way to open them up to read them. Do you have any ideas on what I am doing wrong, or what I should do?


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Hank,


Nevermind. I figured it out. I should have entered the sites on the first page, but I continued further in and it this there where I couldn't get in. I just went back again, and noticed the page when you first "enter" is where you can read the articles. Sorry for the confusion, and thanks again for the site.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

OK, there are some really interesting items and then some others, well, you'll see.

HankD

 

I am sorry, but I cannot buy the idea of angels, fallen or otherwise, breeding with human woman. You might as well cross bread a woman and a Saint Bernard, its just not going to happen. God came upon Mary and caused her to conceive Jesus, but Jesus was 100 % human. There is no case of a half man half anything else ever occurring in recorded history. There are very few species that can interbreed. A male donkey and female horse creating a mule is the only one I can think of and mule's are genetic dead ends incapable of reproduction.

My 2 cents worth: The first part of Genesis 6:4 "There were giants in the earth in those days," refers to the existence of dinosaurs that lived both before and after the flood. The second part, "when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown," refers to the mixed marriages of men who followed after God and wicked women, and the class of warriors that existed before the flood.

 

North Carolina Tentmaker,


Please go and listen to these links. They are very informative, and give both sides of this issue. Please listen to both, as I think you will be greatly blessed. I give thanks to someone else who posted on this thread, for mentioning this Pastor on sermonaudio, as this is what the links are from, and to which I personally listened to after he shared this info.


The links are:

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=sermonstopic&sermonID=1210395030

(this is part one discussing the opinion that this is speaking of regular men)


http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sid=1280383419

(this is part two, discussing the opinion that this is speaking of fallen angels - it is very good and very convincing - scripturally in comparison to the above)


I pray the Lord will bless you richly as you listen to these sermons.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Michelle, here is the other pastor I was mentioning from Pennsylvania...regarding the "sons of God" on sermonaudio...

web page

web page

Todd

 

Hiya Todd!

I just wanted to thank you very much for providing those two links. They were very informative, and had even more scriptural evidence than the links I posted. I very much appreciated your efforts. Thank you, they were a great blessing to me.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Your welcome. Nice to hear that theory well laid out with scripture. Quite convincing.

Todd