Who would you arm?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by saturneptune, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. saturneptune

    saturneptune
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Likes Received:
    0
    There have been several threads that have mentioned giving every administrator, staff, and teacher in a school the authority to carry a firearm. This seems to be a reasonable solution.

    On the other hand, I can think of many members of my congregation I would not want carrying a firearm because either the lack of training or the inability to be trained. Chances are they would shoot me or my family before the criminal.

    So the question is, which positions would you be in favor of arming in a school, and what type of training would you require they PASS?
     
  2. Oldtimer

    Oldtimer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,934
    Likes Received:
    0
    Arm everyone who chooses to carry a weapon. Teachers, bus drivers, food handlers, maintenance staff, etc. Both concealed and open carry would be allowed with certain provisions. Teachers - concealed, for example.

    -- Pass a thorough firearms training course that includes full testing of proficiency of same. Taking the 8 hour concealed carry class required by NC isn't enough training. A thorough course would resolve the problem of those church members who shouldn't carry a gun. (We have some of them at our church, too.) It is doubtful many of those individuals could pass the training requirements.

    -- Pass a gun ownership specific* background check.


    *specific
    - no violent crime record during their lifetime, not just as an adult.
    - no evidence of mental problems that include the potential for violence.
    - honorable discharge from military service, if they served.
     
  3. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    I worked for years at a facility where folks had to have a picture ID to pass through the gate. I believe all schools should be inclosed in a fence and a picture ID presented to enter the secure area. A double fence would protect against the drug pushers.

    The cost of education is high but I believe there is sufficient money wasted to build a fence and provide a couple of security personnel.

    There is no way that absolute security can be provided but we must try!
     
  4. mont974x4

    mont974x4
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,565
    Likes Received:
    1
    I believe anyone who can otherwise legally carry should be allowed to do so as they wish. I would compile a list of who those people are just so I can be informed. We have officers in our schools now, but not enough to have one cop per school. I would change that. These officers are in plain clothes. I think that is best.

    I don't want the schools to become prisons for the kids. So, I am against a full fence. As tragic as these events are we need to remember that they are not the norm. They are extremely rare events.

    We don't want to be ruled by fear. We do want to take seriously our responsibility to provide safe schools. There is a balanced middle ground that should be sought.
     
  5. mont974x4

    mont974x4
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,565
    Likes Received:
    1
    Here's an article on how they do it in TX.



    “We give our ‘Guardians’ training in addition to the regular Texas conceal-and-carry training,” Thweatt, whose school is about three hours northwest of Dallas, told FoxNews.com. “It mainly entails improving accuracy…You know, as educators, we don’t have to be police officers and learn about Miranda Rights and related procedures. We just have to be accurate.”

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/1...-fire-back-say-texas-officials/#ixzz2FQ93pG4r
     
  6. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    I specifically don't want teachers carrying. There are more than enough non teaching personnel in each school that can. I want each classroom to construct an armored hollow wall that blends into the room and only opens from the inside where teachers focus their attention on getting their children hidden away safe.
     
  7. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    18,907
    Likes Received:
    94
    MARINES..... They are trained to handle firearms! I wouldn't want a member of a teaching staff to ever wield a firearm. Leave it to a professional ONLY!
     
  8. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's like saying only a marine can learn how to be trained properly. Training is what makes one a professional.
     
  9. mont974x4

    mont974x4
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,565
    Likes Received:
    1
    Not all schools have hallways and traditional class rooms. Those that do would require major expense to make each classroom to make them into panic rooms.


    I favor arming teachers because they would be the first target to be hit when a shooter enters the room. That means they would also be the first to have a chance to respond to the threat.

    Most of those kids in CT would be alive today if the principal, or other staff member, had been able to end the threat when he first entered the building.
     
  10. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hmmm, very interesting, web.

    Do you know of any school that has built such a wall? I'd like to know more how it works.
     
  11. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't, it was an idea I had. It only needs to be standing room, so 3 foot wall constructed in front of an existing wall wouldn't cut into the size of the room drastically. I agree there would be high costs involved, but that is going to be the case with any solution. Take some of the billions these public unions spend on campaign contributions to do it.
     
  12. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    union hazard pay will trump any cost of construction.
     
  13. mont974x4

    mont974x4
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,565
    Likes Received:
    1
    yet another reason to break that union
     
  14. saturneptune

    saturneptune
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Likes Received:
    0
    I appreciate all the responses. I would say anyone capable of firing a gun should have one in a school. As I said, from my obeservation at church and substitute teaching, there are just some people that do not need a gun, usually related to having no physical or steady ability. The other type that does not need one is those with little or no common sense.
     
  15. Oldtimer

    Oldtimer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,934
    Likes Received:
    0
    You've brought out a very good point, IMO. Schools should not be prisons or even appear to be prisons for children. Nor, do we want, again, IMO, the equivalent fear that resulted in people installing fallout shelters under their homes during the cold war.

    This country was founded on freedom. High security fences and other such measures around schools gives too much of a conotation of the Berlin Wall. There's nothing wrong with a regular fence around a school property just as there's nothing wrong with having one around the backyard at home. However, if that home fence were to be constructed to function the same as a fence at a high security prison alarm bells would go off for most folks. Why?

    I don't have all the answers. In fact, I'm far from it. I don't know where the line is that we shouldn't cross between freedom and becoming enslaved within prisons of our own making in the name of security.

    As I type, Isaiah 9:10 (KJB) comes to mind. "The bricks are fallen down, but we will build with hewn stones: the sycomores are cut down, but we will change them into cedars."

    However, I don't believe the answer lies in sentencing the youth of this country to the equivalent of NC's Central Prision just because there's a potential for another school shooting to take place.

    Moving on.... We're discussing schools here. Once the schools are "secure" do we move on to movie theaters with the same physical barriers and checkpoints? Sporting events? Hospitals? Shopping malls? Churches?

    As those pickup trucks from my youth with gun racks in the back window disappear, the hewn stone walls around our schools grow higher.
     
  16. blackbird

    blackbird
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Messages:
    11,898
    Likes Received:
    2
    SN

    You say

    Anyone capable of firing a gun should have one in a school

    Then you say

    There are just some people that do not need a gun, usually related to having no physical or steady ablility

    Then you say

    The other type that does not need one is those with little or no common sense

    Your first thought does not agree with the other two thoughts
     
  17. saturneptune

    saturneptune
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Likes Received:
    0
    You are correct. One could interpret capable of firing a gun as able to do it even if there is no common sense or physical ability. Capable to me means knowing how to fire a weapon. For example, the way you are interpreting the word, if one was to say capable of using a soldering iron, you are taking it as they can plug it in and heat up the iron, while I take the word to mean that they can heat of the iron and splice two wires properly with heat in the right places without burning a hole in themselves or the equipment. To me that is common sense.
     
  18. blackbird

    blackbird
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Messages:
    11,898
    Likes Received:
    2
    I see what you're saying, SN------but------when bullets start flying---most of the time "Common Sense" also flies---outside the window!! Know what I mean---regardless of how "trained" a person is----when bullets start flying . . .
     
  19. mont974x4

    mont974x4
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,565
    Likes Received:
    1
    That's not entirely true. Anyone who has been in the military or in law enforcement will tell you that when these situations arise instinct takes over. The more you train, especially with realistic training, the smoother this goes and the better honed those instincts become.

    One example is in training to reload while keeping your pistol aimed on target.

    We see the same thing in any training that involves repetitions.

    This training makes us all safer.


    In Texas they require armed teachers to use bullets that fragment. This also makes us safer because it reduces the risks of ricochets and through and throughs hitting unintended targets. I was required to use hollow points for the same reason when I worked security.
     
  20. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    18,907
    Likes Received:
    94
    I did not say only a marine although we do get lots of on the job training in being shot at & returning fire! LOL

    Look, I would rather have trained military in security because I know 1st hand the type of training they go through & Im not just referring to putting 200 rounds thru a firearm. Im talking about learning how to think & respond to an armed assailant in any environment. It would also be advantageous if a "Protector" Guardian knew something about hand to hand & talking someone out of the mindset of killing. Perhaps its time for scientists to build robocops! That would be cool! :thumbsup:Till then, troops coming home have that training & are looking for work.
     

Share This Page

Loading...