Whom I am chief.

Ed

 

Two things- Are you sure Barry Bonds has hit more HR than has Hank Aaron? Read my above post, carefully, before answering that. I think that probably is not the case, at least in professional baseball. Think about what I just said.

And second, I will have to ask that you not refer to me as Mr. Ed, for the sake of my own integrity. I recently called one to task, who did not know me anywhere near well enough to call me Mr. Ed (as he meant it in a 'digging' manner), and I will and now do ask that all observe the same standard, in this. (It is also one reason I use the full 'posting name' of all posters when I address them, including a couple of personal friends and one of my own former pastors.) It is not that I even particularly care in the least, where some are concerned, but I do not want to appear to have a double standard for any. You can call me about anything you wish, to my face, but please, not on the Baptist Board.

On the Baptist Board, please call me Ed, or EdSutton, as these are the two ways I identify myself, and not late for dinner.

Thanks,

Ed

 

No apology is necessary, by any stretch. I just want to appear consistent on that, as I have with another poster. Had I not had to bring it up with him, you would not have heard one word, for as I said, I do not find it offensive, per se, from most, and that certainly includes you. I'm sure you can fully undertstand and appreciate this part, as a long time pastor, yourself. Sometimes you simply have to do something, that you'd really prefer not to have to do, simply to treat all equal, in that sense. Just as I'm sure you well know that "you can't play favorites" from the pulpit, without having it eventually come back to "bite you".

I'll get back to Bonds and Aaron, after church, sometime.

Ed

 

While this analogy sounds good, I think it's wrong, and I'll tell you why. When Emmitt retired, he could no longer play football. His yardaged accumulation came to an end because he could not physically compete any longer.

As you know, we will NOT stop sinning EVER in our current state, therefore Paul is stating emphatically that he knows this. He was a sinner and knew it.

Your analogy would have been better if it was Emmit smith saying "I am the rushing leader" in the game he broke the record, while still continuting to play for another year.

 

The point is how someone would correctly use the phrasing, "I am", while currently no longer being active in something, and it make sense. If Emmitt is talking about his title, he would say, "I am "the all-time rushing leader. He wouldn't say, I was, it would be ridiculous for him to do so. That was my point. I think Paul saw himself as the Chief of all sinners, a a title, earned by what he had done. He was explaining, that I, the chief of sinners, was saved, and forgiven, so, can all of you.

 

Thanks. I understood what you were getting at, but I see Paul's statment as his admittance what he did in the past, ON TOP of his current outlook of himself as a sinner. If it was only his life in the past, I believe he would have clarified it. I think we all to some extent see ourselves in this same light...not by what sins we used to commit, but those we still struggle with.

 

I don't believe we lead a sinless life, far from it, so I don't want to give that impression. If you go back in this thread and read my post, I also think that was how Paul viewed himself, but because of sins prior to salvation. If one thinks that Paul's was then currently the greatest practicing sinner, and then read his writings, it makes little sense.

 

It only makes little sense to those who can't grasp the fact that Paul had to beat his body daily to keep it under subjection because the evil he would not as a saved person, he found himself doing anyway.

Paul stated 'of whom I am chief' because he knew of his constant and ongoing battle with sinful flesh.

 

Paul did not say Christ came to free us from sin, of which I commit the chief sins...

He said Christ came to save sinners, of whom I am chief.


There is a difference, Bob.

 

Ok, Bob... you are wrong

Bob... check your dictionary... there is no such word as 'wrongest'.

Ok, Bob... you are wrong.

 

Please tell me how these would make sense if Paul was sinng greater than those he is talking about? Why would they not then put away Paul?

1Cr 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.
1Cr 5:12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?
1Cr 5:13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person.

 

Ok, Steven... you are wrong.

Hey, just taking Bob's advice.

 

I would like a serious answer. While your at it here is another one.

Phl 3:17 Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern.

How or why would Paul be telling them to follow his example as a pattern for how to walk, if Paul was sinning much more than they were? It just makes no sense.

 

Back to Henry Aaron and Barry Bonds:

In HRs in the National and American Leagues of American Professional baseball, Bonds (currently) stands as #1 with 762 HR; Aaron is #2 in that list with 755.

Pretty clear cut, no??

Uh - not so fast! I did say "professional baseball". (You know I would not give one away that easy.)

Both played in the "minor leagues" for two years. Bonds hit 20 HR there in a year and a half; Aaron hit 31 HR in the minors in 2 years.

Aaron 786; Bonds 782. Hmmm!

In addition, Aaron played one year (1952) with the Indianapolis Clowns of the Negro League, and helped them to win the 1952 Negro League World Series, as well as a few years in the Caribbean playing "winter ball". AS these were "professional leagues" as well, I suspect his career HR total is well over 800, putting him right up alongside Japan's Sadaharu Oh (Japan Leagues), and the late Josh Gibson (Negro Leagues) for 'career HR' as a professional.

OTOH, Bonds hit 44 HR in 4 years as a collegian at ASU, including helping them win a college WS. So I'd say the question is, and will always remain 'open" as to who is/was the best HR hitter ever, up 'til now.? And does the late, great Babe Ruth now drop a couple of notches?? :laugh: :laugh:

Ed