Whom would you allow to preach...

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Allan, Jan 7, 2007.

  1. Allan

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    This is sort-of a question towards Pastors but all are welcome to engage this topic.

    I started wondering about this question when studying some of Spurgeon’s works and biographical history and seeing that he allowed D.L. Moody to preach from his pulpit (I believe twice) but also was a definate supporter of D.L. Moody's Revival/Crusades when there weren't many at the first. So...What is this question? :

    To the Calvinist:
    Would you allow a Non-Calvinist to preach from your pulpit, since you are steward over God's people??

    To the Non-Calvinist:
    Would you allow a Calvinist to preach from your pulpit, since you are the steward over God's people??


    I ask this because I find people are absolutely shocked that I personally would have no problem with this being a Non-Calvinist myself, specifically with regard to salvation.
    I do understand that this does imply that the preacher is/must be scripturally sounds in the basic biblical truths.

    And the second part of this question is:
    If so, what would you allow them to preach and to what criteria should they hold to in under your stewardship? Or would you limit them??

    I was curious as to see how this plays out as it is of interest to me. Since I have been told I (as a Non-Calvinist) would not be allowed to preach in their churches (those I have spoke with) even after telling them they could preach in mine. Why? I would ask - because I am not a Calvinist! And then say they are upset because the Non-Calvinists would allow them to preach in their churches. It is a round-robin circle for both sides. I just wanted to see what input this would receive and to the "would you" and "why" and "how". What do you think my fellow laborers in Christ?
     
    #1 Allan, Jan 7, 2007
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  2. pinoybaptist

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    I am Primitive Baptist, and stand by the Doctrine of Grace, as understood by Primitive Baptists.
    A brother, who pastored the church before me, and who is now again pastoring the same church, since my family and I have moved up here to Western New York, allowed a Full Gospel pastor to preach in that church during his first tenure as pastor. Not once, but I think twice, if I remember correctly.
    But I think it was more in deference to his wife, whom he had just married at that point, since the Full Gospel preacher was his wife's former pastor.
    However, personally, I would not allow a non-Primitive Baptist preacher to preach in the church if I were pastoring.
    First, it would be unfair to him.
    His theological bent would, if he were worth his denominational salt, steer him towards that bent and it might be an effort for him not to present Christ as a Savior "wanting to save IF only they would open their hearts to him". or at least hint towards that direction.
    Second, it will be unfair to the congregation, or at least my church's congregation, who will have to be polite and smile and nod, while deep in their hearts they might be in disagreement with the hints and such.
    Third, I wouldn't in a million years even entertain the idea of hinting to a preacher what he should preach about, and what he should avoid preaching about.
    I wouldn't even share the pulpit with a fellow Primitive Baptist who favors the current liberalism that have so subtly crept in among our people for the same reasons.
     
    #2 pinoybaptist, Jan 8, 2007
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  3. Allan

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    I appreciate your responce and respect your view with regard to this. I'm hoping it wont get to touchy a subject.

    a couple of other questions for you brother (and others that may respond of like mind):

    Do you feel it appropreite for others to share their pulpits with those "not" of their thelogical bent?

    Can there really be any unity outside the confines of our theological spectrum?
    IF so, then to what extent is it to be offered??

    EDITED IN -- I like your new roadrunner, but I think your groundhog was a great trade mark and comical side peice in some discussions. but both are great.
     
  4. pinoybaptist

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    Sharing the pulpits with those "not" of their theological bent is primarily, to me, at least, more of a personal, than theological, conviction.
    The one who is called of God to preach is responsible to the God who calls him, not to the pastor who invites him to preach, or is invited to preach.
    One reason for my response which I did not mention is that the church I was pastoring had people who have only been exposed to fellow Primitive Baptist preaching.
    Old people. Very loving people. Simple people.
    Also, they were not doctrinally all that strong.
    Like somebody I know said: Man, you could preach heresy in that pulpit and they wouldn't know the difference.
    So I didn't want them confused, or upset.

    If they were strong doctrinally, perhaps I would allow a Calvinist to preach to them. :smilewinkgrin:

    So, I guess it should be more up to the pastor to decide based on how he sizes up his congregation.

    As for unity outside the theological bent, I don't think so.
    How can two walk together, except they be agreed, asks the Bible itself.
    Maybe we can fellowship in forums like these, or agree to fellowship and sit at lunch or dinner with one another, but worship in unity as a body ?

    Heaven, probably, but not in this fallen world, where Satan the Deceiver and Accuser and Father of Lies still roam.
     
  5. Allan

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    Granted the bible does state; How can two walk together unless they are agreed. But you do realize you are taking great liberty with that verse. Being in context it is refering to an unsaved person and a saved one. Though their is a principle we can extrapolate from it which can show in likeness that it is appropreite to walk with one like yourself but 'we' must infer just how far that principle goes via presuppostions and or due to personal preferences.

    However I do agree that we should be careful, who we allow in our pulpits and was not issuing a blank call to just anyone be allowed in that most sacred place.
     
  6. pinoybaptist

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    Read it again, bro. Amos 3 speaks to the children of Israel (spiritually referencing God's children, both Jew and Gentile) not to the Gentile nation (represented as heathen and unsaved in the Old Testament)around Israel. Israel is God's chosen nation in the Old Testament.
    So here again, we have an example.
    The two of us.
    How can we have unity, when we have opposing views on what the Bible teaches ?
     
  7. Allan

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    Actually what you have is Gods Nation Israel - rejecting thier God and living in open defience and rebellion. This is referencing God to Israel Not Israel to the other nations. God can not walk in fellowship with Israel if Israel continues in its sin for there is no fellowship which is evedienced by walking in agreement. It still is about the saved and unsaved and is the very reason Paul the apostle uses the same typology in 2 Cr 6:14-18 of not being unequally yoked, light with darkness.

    In either Case I'm not specifically disagreeing with you I was just stating the verse is not in context but that you are using a principle thereof.
     
  8. Brother Bob

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    A little taste of Jim Jones hey?
     
  9. Allan

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    ME?? WHo is Jim Jones??
     
  10. Brother Bob

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    No! not you. If we let someone preach in our pulpit doctrine we consider to be false it would be like giving our congregation a little taste of poison.
    We will not preach or ordain any of our own members who do not hold to our doctrine, why would we let outsiders who have doctrine we disagree with come in and use our pulpit.

    You asked a question and I answered with the truth of how I feel. I consider false doctrine to be poison and always have.

    I would never call you Jim Jones. peace,
     
    #10 Brother Bob, Jan 8, 2007
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  11. tinytim

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    I would only let preachers I know I can trust to preach solid biblical truth, that agrees with our church's teaching preach from my pulpit.

    That doesn't mean that I think others are not saved, or not called to preach, I just have to protect my flock the best way I know how, based on what God has shown me.

    Pinoy and I have had this conversation before. We obviously disagree over things. He would not allow me to preach from his pulpit, as I would not allow him to preach from mine over the differences of interpretation when it comes to salvation.

    Does that mean I think less of him... NO! I believe he is called to preach to the people he is called to preach to, As am I. And when we get to Heaven, I expect to sit down and have a long discussion with him... That way he can apologize for being wrong... JUST JOKIN!!!!!
    I may be the one apologizing!

    I think the only ones I have ever let preach from my pulpit were ABCs, or SBCs, or independents, I don't remember anymore.
     
  12. Pastor Larry

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    It would depend on my relationship with him and whether or not I could trust him. If I knew him well, and knew that I could trust him not to preach on our disagreements, I would be more likely to. In fact, I have, having had a former pastor of mine here to preach who doesn't see exactly eye to eye with me on this. It would be rare, but I would do it.
     
  13. PastorSBC1303

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    I am calvinistic in my theology...

    Yet, I am way more interested in knowing if the man truly knows the Lord, follows Him daily and desires to preach the Word expositionally rather than His own thoughts on things.

    If those conditions are met, then it really would not matter to me whether the person was a Calvinist or a Non-Calvinist.
     
  14. Allan

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    I completely understand, I was trying to identify to whom it was you were addressing and who Jim Jones was??

    I guess this is kindof what I was speaking to, for those who wouldn't allow others to preach... (I will elaborate further in a seperate post, ok)

    What doctrines are we actually talking about??
    Do we as Baptist not have to hold to certain doctrines to even be called a Baptist?? I know some don't but I mean in the main idea of it....

    And if those doctrines conincide which ones other than those main tenents of the faith do we say or should we say also would constitute as being enough to forbid one to come and preach.

    Remember - I do understand about doctrinal soundness, and watching over Gods flock... this is more a discussion on where do some draw that line and why especially since we as Baptist and bound (supposed to be that is) to the same fundamental doctrinal truths that unite us as a distinct theological group from other. Does that make any sense??
     
  15. Allan

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    That brings me to another thing... Fellowshiping....Naw, I'll leave that for another thread. :laugh:

    I see from your last paragraph you have allowed those of baptists to preach, but in those differing Baptist groups there are diverse theologies and it is one these I was speaking alittle more to. Would you allow a Calvinistic SBC to preach, say a salvation message or even a message on walking in a right relationship with God.

    I am not talking about out right contrasts to your theological perspective but those that are in agreement with yours.

    I am just trying to see where we divide this as pastors and people of God.

    As I said, Spurgeon a staunch Calvinist and theologian allowed a non-Calvinist to preach in his own pulpit (D.L. Moody) and was even a supporter of Moody's Evangelistic work in Europe.
     
  16. Allan

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    I agree that is should be a rare type of event and believe as you concerning your post.

    But what would you allow them to preach on?

    Calvinist -
    Non-Calvinist -
     
  17. Allan

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    Then I tip my hat to you sir. :thumbs: For in that theological relm I have yet to find one such as yourself. I'm sure they are out there but no one from those whom I have personally spoken to would allow such a thing.

    What are some things you would allow them to preach on if it was topical?
    Then agian how about expositorally. As we know some do tend to see things in a differing light. Now, I doubt anyone would bring in a guest speaker who was not of their theological view to speak concerning certain doctrines that are the pillars of what that Thelogy holds to - that is a given.

    But I'm after what we as believers define as unity, TRUE fellowship (not just a burger and a game), and sharing in the responsibilities of preaching Christ crusified, buried, and rasied up on the third day that grace may abound where sin ran rampant.
     
    #17 Allan, Jan 9, 2007
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  18. Allan

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    I guess I will add just a bit here: Please use common sense here, for I am not speaking of indisputable heresies and such... But for the main here - I am speaking of salvation being the message to be preached.

    What doctrines are we actually talking about that keep others from proclaiming a message God has given them to preach in our pulpits?? This obviously will range with differing theologies...

    Do we as Baptist not have to hold to certain doctrines (immutable truths) to even be called a Baptist?? I know some don't but I mean in the main of it....

    And if those main doctrines conincide with most all baptists which ones other than those main tenents of the faith should we say would constitute as being enough to forbid one to come and preach.

    Remember - I do understand about doctrinal soundness, and watching over Gods flock... this is more a discussion on where do some draw that line and why especially since we as Baptist and bound (supposed to be that is) to those same fundamental doctrinal truths that unite us as a distinct theological group from other, do we not work together??

    But what I have noted in the scriptures with regard to fellowship is that fellowship is more than just sitting around eating or talking about life, or just saying we are saved like them...

    Greek word for fellowship used in Act 2 concerning the Church:
    Koinonia –(n)Partnership – (lit) participation (social) intercourse

    Dictionary with regard to Partnership:
    Partnership A relationship between individuals or groups that is characterized by mutual cooperation and responsibility, as for the achievement of a goal.

    (Social) intercourse
    Being intimately apart of and involved in the lives of others.

    Is there truly any fellowship among Churches anymore??
    If we as believers/churches have been called to evangelize the world that some might be saved, is not or should not our message be the same?? Are we not to be in fellowship one with another in this great commission??

    Now granted and in all fairness I am speaking not of just letting everyone come in and preach, since we ALL should be going out together and preaching to the world. As I stated earlier that it should be a rare thing for a guest speaker to NOT be of your same theological grounding to be behind the pulpit.


    Another thing I have noted is that if one will not share their pulpit in the church they will not share their preaching to the lost either. In other words if you were to do a crusage/revival - whatever - you still would not allow another of differing Theological views preach on salvation either being away from your church.

    Maybe it is just me but I see a lot of people saying we are brothers in Christ in word only and few if any are truly fellowshipping one with another in the great Commission to a lost and dieing world. I'm not talking about eccumunicable either but those who share and believe in the Immutable truths of scripture that we as baptist hold. Yes there are some non-baptists out their who share those same views and are also brothers in Christ.

    As I said - maybe it is just me.
     
    #18 Allan, Jan 9, 2007
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  19. Pastor Larry

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    Whatever they desired, hopefully including the gospel. But I would expect that they would know me and our church's doctrinal statement (New Hampshire Confession) well enough to know what to stay away from.
     
  20. Brother Bob

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    Well, its just not going to happen so I guess that about says it all, and yes, it does continue to other areas that we may meet. We are but mere humans who feel that we are preaching the "truth" and if we allow others to preach a different doctrine then we have become someone who endorses that doctrine.
     

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