Whose number is 666? Is it the pope?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by gabba, Aug 21, 2001.

  1. gabba

    gabba
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    This Beast of Rev. 13 is not just an institution, but a person; specifically, as we shall see, it is the Emperor Nero. This is because, particularly the way the Bible looks at things, the two could be considered as one. Rome was, to some extent, covenantally identified with its leader, as the human race was with Adam; the Empire was embodied and represented in the reigning Caesar (Nero). Thus John’s prophecy can shift back and forth between them, or consider them both together, under the same designation. And both Nero and the Empire were sunk in degrading, degenerate, bestial activities. Nero, who murdered numerous members of his own family (including his pregnant wife, whom he kicked to death); who was a homosexual, the final stage in degeneracy (Rom. 1:24-32); whose favorite aphrodisiac consisted of watching people suffer the most horrifying and disgusting tortures; who dressed up as a wild beast in order to attack and rape male and female prisoners; who used the bodies of Christians burning at the stake as the original “Roman candles” to light up his filthy garden parties; who launched the first imperial persecution of Christians at the instigation of the Jews, in order to destroy the Church; this animalistic pervert was the ruler of the most powerful empire on earth. And he set the tone for his subjects. Rome was the moral sewer of the world.

    The ancient languages used each letter of the alphabet as a numeral as well; thus, the “number” of anyone’s name could be computed by simply adding up the numerical value of its letters. Clearly, St. John expected that his contemporary readers were capable of using this method to discover the Beast’s name — thus indicating, again, the contemporary message of Revelation; he did not expect them to figure out the name of some 20th-century official or some religious leader during the dark ages. At the same time, however, he tells them that it will not be as easy as they might think: it will require someone “who has understanding.” For John did not give a number that could be worked out in Greek, which is what a Roman official scanning Revelation for subversive content would expect. The unexpected element in the computation was that it had to be worked out in Hebrew, a language that at least some members of the churches would know. His readers would have guessed by now that he was speaking of Nero, and those who understood Hebrew probably grasped it instantly. The numerical values of the Hebrew letters in Neron Kesar (Nero Caesar) is 666. John’s Biblically informed readers will have already recognized many clear indications of the Beast’s identity as Rome (indeed, they already knew this from reading the Book of Daniel). Now Nero has arrived on the scene as the first great persecutor of the Church, the embodiment of the “666-ness” of the Empire, and – Lo and behold! – his very name spells out 666.

    It is significant that “all the earliest Christian writers on the Apocalypse, from Irenaeus down to Victorious of Pettau and Commodian in the fourth, and Andreas in the fifth, and St. Beatus in the eighth century, connect Nero, or some Roman emperor, with the Apocalyptic Beast .“ There should be no reasonable doubt about his identification. John was writing to first-century Christians, warning them of things that were “shortly” to take place. They were engaged in the most crucial battle of history, against the Dragon and the evil Empire which he possessed. The purpose of the Revelation was to comfort the Church with the assurance that God was in control, so that even the awesome might of the Dragon and the Beast would not stand before the armies of Jesus Christ.
     
  2. Kiffin

    Kiffin
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    Interesting Post! [​IMG] I might slightly disagree with you in that I believe Domitian was Emperor at the time and that He was being potrayed by Revelation as Nero's evil risen again in Domitian I believe or some say 666 was the oriental number of ultimate evil. But once again good post.
     
  3. swill17

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    I don't care what you say about 613 laws. Are you keeping them as you contend that Christ said? Are you keeping every jot and tittle?

    There are different laws that support different functions. There is the moral to tell the difference between right and wrong. There is the ceremonial in order to make provision for if the first law is broken. This law deals with atonement for breaking the first law. There are health laws designed for its obvious purpose. There were also civil laws that governed the Israelites.

    It is clear that some of these laws do not apply. If they did, what am I to do with my slave(s)? Israel at that time was a theocracy that had a mission. They were ultimately to take over the world and they were into military maneuvers. Christians are not into that today, except the Vatican. The Vatican makes herself out to be a close copy of the Israelites. That is what she even uses to justify her unmatched atrocities against the Saints. She has the blue, purple and scarlet and she moves out to devour her enemies.

    But anytime you are thinking to tell us about 613 laws, look inside the ark. There you will see that there are separate laws because there are only ten commandments in there. In that ten are precepts that hit everyone under every age and every circumstance. They were carved on blue stone by God Himself, and they were written by themselves not because God was lazy.

    Whenever you see people trying to post the Ten Commandments on public places you be consistent now and make sure you remind them that you can't separate ten out of the 603. If enough of you did this the crisis would yet more be delayed and when it comes it won't be as strong.

    In His Grace,

    Susan Williams

    <><>

    We were having a discussion in church today about the scapegoat in the sanctuary service. On the Day of Atonement, in order for the sins to be cleansed from the sanctuary, two goats were chosen. One goat was killed while the other was declared guilty of the sins in the sanctuary and was then banished to a place not inhabited.

    Adventists teach that this second goat which was banished represents Satan, while many others tell us that it represents Christ. Why would they say it must represent Christ? Because it appears that this scapegoat bears the sins of the people.

    I didn't know an answer for this, but I now have a very interesting observation. One thing we can look at is which sins will be taken care of by the sacrifice of Christ and which ones will not. Hebrews 10:26 and 27 says:

    "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."

    This scripture is telling us that Christ's sacrifice will absolutely not cover willful sin. That would ordinarily mean that it any of us ever knowingly committed a sin, we would be lost forever. How can this situation then be handled? It can be handled using the scapegoat.

    Those willful sins can be cast upon the scapegoat. Add to this the fact that the scripture told us that without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins we get to understand why they are left with Satan and they are not forgiven of him. The scapegoat wasn't killed and its blood shed. It was left to die slowly into a place not inhabited. If there is no remission of sins, there is only left death to the transgressor.

    Understanding the situation this way gives light to our understanding.

    In His Grace,


    Susan Williams

    <><>

    There are many reasons why the 666 Beast man cannot be Nero. First is the longevity of the person being spoken about.


    Rev. 15 shows us the future as the saints sing the song of Moses and the Lamb. The song of Moses was first sung when the Lord delivered the Children of Israel from bondage. This particular song for the future shows another time of oppression and bondage to come for God's people through the cunning of the man represented as the Beast.

    Paul describes this man as sitting in the temple of God claiming to be God and says that the process for setting up this situation already took place in his day (2 Thess. 2:7). This demonstrates for us why in the future there will be such deception all around that, if it were possible, it would deceive the very elect. We are not dealing with elements we are even prepared for. These movements will come WITHIN Christianity, and it will have a so-called Christian agenda. The crimes that will be committed in deceiving the whole world Rev. 13:3. That scripture shows that in just the future, despite all the powerful Christian church around, the whole world will be deceived into worshipping the Beast 666.

    For more information on this, check out this weblink:

    http://www.seventh-dayadventism.org/Forecast.htm

    The emperor Nero was not Christian and therefore the element of deceit for the elect or for Christians just was not there.

    Again, there there is the issue of the longevity of this Beast man. Paul tells us that the setting up for this man had already taken place in his day (2 Thess. 2:7). Revelation 19:20 shows us that when Christ comes, He will come partly for the purpose of destroying this man. By the scriptures announcing the start of the person in question, down to the statements showing his end, we have to conclude that Nero is out of the picture. Nero did not live that long. Nero is now dead and will not be a problem for the Saints in the future.

    There were other Roman emperors that were despotic, cruel and that hated God's people. Some such were not mentioned in the scriptures and that is due to the fact that their records of crime only existed in their lifetimes. The same is not true for the Papacy. As an institution what it has done by far rivals Nero to an unbelievable multiplicity.

    These are just some of the reasons why the Protestant Reformation unanimously told the world that the 666 Beast Antichrist was the Papacy. Nero is dead. The Papacy is alive and very very strong today. As I speak now my church is being ransacked by her infiltrating army members. They are constantly causing debate, confusion and within that, they are organizing changes to its structure in order to accommodate a uniting of her with the other Christian denominations under the domination of Rome in ecumenism. Adventist forums are now filled with strange people who constantly sulk that the Adventist Church claims to be the true church, but when it is presented to them even the bold letter of declaration in 2000 where the Pope said the Catholic Church was the one and only true church, they calm down and will not answer for us what is the difference. They are all ecumenical, and, according to the very definition, there must be a uniting of all the churches UNDER ROME. They usually leave out this point for obvious reasons.
     

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