Why are our prisons so full?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Elnora, Oct 23, 2004.

  1. Elnora

    Elnora
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    Could it be that we keep expanding the definition of what a criminal is?

    "You're turning tens of millions of people into criminals for doing nothing more than downloading or uploading a single song," Jason Shultz of the Election Frontier Foundation, a donor-sponsored membership organization advocating civil rights in the digital age, told Wired magazine. "We're talking about kids listening to music or watching movies."

    http://newstandardnews.net/content/?action=show_item&itemid=1124
     
  2. dianetavegia

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    None of those 'kids' went to jail, tho.

    U.S. Department of Justice · Office of Justice Programs Bureau of Justice Statistics


    Half (50%) of convicted jail inmates were under the influence of drugs or alcohol at the time of the offense, down from 59% in 1996.

    Three out of every four convicted jail inmates were alcohol or drugs-involved at the time of their current offense.

    Fifty-three percent of jail inmates were on probation, parole or pretrial release at the time of arrest.

    Four in 10 jail inmates had a current or past sentence for a violent offense.

    Thirty-nine percent of jail inmates in 2002 had served 3 or more prior sentences to incarceration or probation, down from 44% in 1996.

    Drug offenders, up 37%, represented the largest source of jail population growth between 1996 and 2002.

    More than two-thirds of the growth in inmates held in local jails for drug law violations was due to an increase in persons charged with drug trafficking.

    Thirty-seven percent of jail inmates were convicted on a new charge; 18% were convicted on prior charges following revocation of probation or parole; 16% were both convicted of a prior charge and awaiting trial on a new charge; and 28% were unconvicted.

    Altogether, an estimated 57% of inmates had a high school diploma or its equivalent.

    Among the State prison inmates in 2000:
    nearly half were sentenced for a violent crime (49%)
    a fifth were sentenced for a property crime (20%)
    about a fifth were sentenced for a drug crime (21%)

    http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm
     
  3. Pastor Larry

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    Having copyrighted material without obtaining it legally is criminal. It is stealing. That is not expanding the definition of criminal. It is a criminal act. WE don't need to define stealing down. We need to teach morals and lead by example.

    The possession of music, movies, software, and other copyrighted material through illegal means is a moral problem, a rebellion against God. It is stealing and should be treated as such.

    If you do not want to be a criminal, then don't download songs illegally.
     
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Those kids are stealing. They are criminals.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  5. Joseph_Botwinick

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    I think prisons are overcrowded because liberals refuse to take care of violent criminals (murderers and rapists) the way we should: Execute them. Instead they give them life sentences of free room, board and health care at taxpayer expense.

    I think a one time needle and a wooden box would be cheaper, more efficient, and most of all, more just.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  6. dianetavegia

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    Oh but Joseph... they 'so richly deserve that music'! :rolleyes:

    Ephesians 4:26 "Be angry, and do not sin": do not let the sun go down on your wrath, 27 nor give place to the devil. 28 Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need.
     
  7. Elnora

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  8. Elnora

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    Diane, I understood that you are allowed to download a copy for your own personal use. What does "richly deserve" have to do with it. Actually I agree with you on the murderers and rapists Joseph. I know the death penalty opponents say some one might get executed unjustly. I have an answer for that though. If anyone is caught "falsely accusing" they get the same punishment as the charged.
     
  9. gb93433

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    It all starts at home with mom and dad. You should have heard some of the things I heard from the parents of a kid in trouble.

    One time my brother in law who was a city cop told me about the time he stopped a pastor for speeding in town. He talked with the pastor for awhile. The pastor treated him as though my brother in law should give him a break. He told my brother in law that God was going to be mad at him for stopping the pastor of a church. So my brother in law (who was not a Christian at the time) said to the pastor, "Do you think God would be mad if you ran over a little kid playing in the street because you were going too fast?"

    The children often do what the parents let them get by with. The reason for the trouble is because parents want to save face acting like their child would never do anything wrong. Usually those same parents who do little or nothing also expect little at home too.

    In churches I have seen the disrespect the pastor or preacher gets with people walking around and talking during the service. I have seen parents at other events who will be talking while the speaker is speaking. And we expect kids to do better when their example is showing disrespect.

    The apple never falls far from the tree. Parents ought to be glad when others discipline their children. On one occasion I had a parent and the deacons get mad at me because a kid in the youth group tore up the church. A church member called me up and said it looked like someone broke into the church. I called the police and they came. After I started calling around I suspected who it might be. The police officer asked me if I had any suspicions. By that time I did. The parents asked me to help with their child because they could not control him. The boy was caught on a military base stealing things from the store on base. He had been picked up as a truant student a few times. Plus a few other things. By the time this thing happened he had a record of many of the same things. But when the event happened and the police showed up at the door of the parents and the kid admitted he tore up the church I got a phone call shortly after from an upset deacon. That same kid began to give me more respect along with some of the other adults. But when his momma and daddy made a big issue of it and told me in front of him how much they disliked what I did and how they thought it was so wrong. I was trying to help the kid and the parents. But then the parents didn't like it that their kid was now in trouble and others knew about it. What was interesting is that the grandparents who lived in town told me I did the right thing.

    A friend of mine though represents people on death row. He takes cases where he feels like the person did not get a fair trial. Some of things he has said to me were appalling. Some of those men were never involved in that crime. How would you like to have that kind of justice if you had little or no money. Some of the politicians just want ratings and numbers with a total disregard for true justice. Sometime you ought to research some of those cases. You would wonder just as a typical citizen how anybody could have been convicted of some of those crimes.

    When I taught high school I saw students who came from great Christian homes and there were some parents who I was ashamed to be identified with as a Christian. The biggest difference was the parents. It was not always how smart a student was but how wise his parents were. It all starts right at home.

    When I was in Finland I think it was illegal to spank a child at the time but crime was almost zero. Now I am not advocating no spanking. But what I saw was working. In the schools the teacher had the same power as a vice principal here. If a child was a discipline problem the kid was kicked out of school and the parents had to find another school. They did not tolerate the things parents complain about here. School should be a privilege not a command from the parents. Any time a parent stands up for the child when he has done something wrong it does not help the child to face their responsibility. If you ever listen to Dr. Laura you will notice she gets a regular diet of parents who won’t stand up strong and want to blame someone else.

    The parents need to be parents and discipline their children helping them to grow and be excellent citizens and know God. If you want your kids to do evangelism then do it yourself. If we want our kids to know God then we must know God. We cannot complain about the world when the church is falling apart. Since about 1950 the growth of the church in America has been a steady slow decline. So who do we blame when the church is declining? We need to take a serious look at ourselves first.
     
  10. Joseph_Botwinick

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    1. If the creators of the music, etc... give you permission to retransmit their intellectual property, then it is fine. If not, it is stealing and is a crime.

    2. I have an even better solution for false allegations: DNA testing. I agree with you though on giving them the same punishment as the charged.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  11. gb93433

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    Sounds all pretty and nice. But now that you have made ypur statement. How many cases can you cite where that has happened? It is already a law now. It's kind of like turning in your own brother for smoking pot. Would you do it? Have you ever made a citizens arrest on someone who you knew was speeding? They are violating the law. You are suggesting a very similar thing to be done by a lawyer to another lawyer. If you have not made a citizens arerst to a person you knew was speeding then you are expecting someone else to do what you are not already doing within your right as an American citizen. America is a free country. You could be above the rest and get a law degree and start prosecuting lawyers if you want.

    To write what you wrote shows you do not understand the justice system. What would you do if you were a judge and one of your friends was one of your friends when you and he were both lawyers. Sometime talk to a lawyer and they can fill you in on how that works.

    Perhaps you do not know though that it costs more to try a death penalty case then to have a person put in prison in life.
     
  12. Joseph_Botwinick

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    That is only because Liberals are in charge of our country. They think a trial has to last 4 years, then you have to have the first appeal which will last another 4 years, and then the second and third. Then appeal to the SC. Adn then, after 20 years of appeals, we can finally execute the guy who destroyed the lives of others who are probably not even alive anymore to see justice served for their loved ones.

    It really is simple to me:

    Trial
    One appeal with a DNA test
    If guilty, execution is to immediately follow.

    I think this would cut down on some wasted expense.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  13. dianetavegia

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    A 14 year old local boy was sentenced to 40 years in prison this past week. He had watched a porn movie at 12 years and 41 days, took a 4 year old into the bushes and raped and sodomized her while his little brother watched. Chenggis said Clevenger has had "three or four father figures" and learned to "build a shell around himself." The cut off is 12 years 40 days for charging as a youth.

    A 12 year old in my town who strangled to death a 9 year old girl (reports say he had to squeeze her neck for 2 1/2 minutes before she lost consciousness) can only get 2 years because of a law which will now be changed.
     
  14. Joseph_Botwinick

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    They should both be executed.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  15. Elnora

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    gb93433,

    Oh, I think I understand the way it works.
    It's not pretty and it's not nice. Seeing someone die at the hands of a murderer is really ugly and not pretty at all..
    You assume I know nothing about the justice system. Your are wrong on that but that is beside the point. My answer is to make the system right. Hold all those who broke the law accountable.

    My DH has ministered faithfully for nine years at our local Juvenile Detention Center.
    I was wrongly imprisoned once. No attorney. But I won't go into the ugly details here. I later worked for the Adult court system. Just so you are aware I am familiar with the system.

    Well my brother doesn't smoke pot. But I never was real big on snooping to see if my neighbor is smoking pot. It's that aversion to the "big brother" thing.
    Now if they are stabbing their child, yep I would call the cops and do what I could to stop them. I also do my part by keeping myself in check. If someone is speeding and endangering lives, yes I would call the cops. If I was big enough yes I would make a citizens arrest. [​IMG]

    Should the Lord give me the gift to become a great lawyer I would absolutly love to prosecute criminals of the "powerful kind". Actually I told our youngest daughter to do it, she would be great at it! I was not fiven that gift.

    I have dealt with the courts and a lawyer for a lady falsly accused. He was shaking he was so mad at me for standing up for doing right. It really wasn't that scary. I knew she didn't break the law. They dropped the charges when they couldn't get her to play let's make a deal."

    I don't think money should be the bottom line when it comes to justice. I agree with Joseph on this one. Hold them especially accountable to hold up justice.

    On the one hand you think holding kids accountable is good, but not adults when it comes to murder? But in Finland they don't spank and the crime rate is lower for kids, maybe daddy don't think a child telling him to "shove it" as an infraction of the house rules. Or is dad there?

    My husband is on the wrong side of color from Missippi. He knows all about injustice. I would think if it was more than isolated incidences he would oppose it.
     
  16. Elnora

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    ah, that should have been *given* not fiven
    *Mississippi* not Missippi

    Where is that incompetent thread by Gina :D

    [ October 23, 2004, 11:41 PM: Message edited by: Elnora ]
     
  17. Hardsheller

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    The Music Companies who charge $15 and up for a CD are the ones who are stealing and ought to go to jail.
     
  18. gb93433

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    So you do know about the awful side of "justice." So you do know there's always the practical side. It's easy to say hold everyone accountable, but they don't. So what do you propose to hold people accountable who want personal gain and who are willing to stop at nothing. I think a good example of that was with O.J.

    We can concern ourselves with what is going on outside of what we can control or we can do what we can to make a positive change in the lives of those we influence.

    Perhaps you remember the man in Illinois who openly declared their prison system was corrupt. There were people on death row who never committed any crimes.
     
  19. Kiffin

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    I am involved in a Prison ministry in my local area. The reason most are in jail is because they broke the Law. I must confess though that being involved in this ministry gives you a differant perspective on justice.

    The Prison I go to has Church services almost every day of the week plus a GED program and soon a Drug Rehab program. I believe this Prison is helping make better people out of these law breakers because of the openess to let churches come do ministry there and by offering educational opportunities and drug rehab treatment. I have come to be a believer in this restoration justice.
     
  20. Pastor Larry

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    The music companies very rarely steal from me. I just don't buy them. It is their stuff. They can charge whatever they want. If they want to charge $1500, that is their right. If you think they charge too much, then stop buying them. It will not be long before prices will come down.

    This is a black and white issue. When something is copyrighted, and the copyright owner says you have to pay for it, to not pay for it is stealing. Period.
     

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