Why are you here? (sincere question)

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by FLMike, Apr 25, 2005.

  1. FLMike

    FLMike
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    I'm very curious as to why there is a forum dedicated to this particular difference. Can folks from both (any?) sides tell me why what they believe on this subject matters, and why it matters enough to debate it with the other side? What does your side's position say about God, and what does the other side's position say? That is, if you're a Calvinist, what does the Calvinist position (correctly) tell us about God, and what does the Arminianist position (incorrectly) tell us about God? Arminians would of course reverse that question.

    As I said, this is a sincere question.
     
  2. TCassidy

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    Because Truth matters. That seems self-evident.

    The Particular Redemptionist side (which I am) believes in the Sovereignty of God and that our salvation brings glory only to Him.

    The Arminian side believes God is not sovereign in salvation and that salvation also brings glory to man for making the right choice.

    And that, too, seems self-evident.

    If you don't want to participate in the discussion please feel free not to, but don't tell the rest of us we cannot simply because you don't like it.

    Thank you.
     
  3. whatever

    whatever
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    Why it matters - we should want to know as much as we possibly can about what God has revealed of Himself.

    What Calvinism says about God - that He is completely sovereign over all of His creation; and that He gets His way in everything that occurs, including salvation and damnation; and that everything that occurs is for His glory (and our good, if we love Him).

    What Arminianism says about God - it would probably be better to let an Arminiam answer.
     
  4. icthus

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    Cassidy, I see that you now call yourself "The Particular Redemptionist side". Not Calvinist anymore? Now that his own writings have destroyed any notion that he taught the heresy of Limited Atonement, you can't bring his "evidence" any more? It good to have the main person for the "5 Points of Calvinism", which pretends to come from his writings, actually teach that Jesus indeed died for "everyone without exception". Amen!
    :D
     
  5. icthus

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    Why it matters - we should want to know as much as we possibly can about what God has revealed of Himself.

    What Calvinism says about God - that He is completely sovereign over all of His creation; and that He gets His way in everything that occurs, including salvation and damnation; and that everything that occurs is for His glory (and our good, if we love Him).

    What Arminianism says about God - it would probably be better to let an Arminiam answer.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Whatever, what non-Calvinists believe in actually is what the Bible teaches, but as long as you are a Calvinist, you would be blind to this. We are not the ones who make God the author of sin, nor are we the ones who have removed human responsibility from Salvation. You Calvinists assume (wrongly), that your "system" makes God more "Sovereign", when in fact it does not. All it really does, is to make Him resposible for things that He is not the cause of.
     
  6. BobRyan

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    There is a current thread here on the "difference" between Calvinism and Arminianism that spells it out very well IMHO (particularly the last 2 or 3 pages).

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. BobRyan

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    In another thread I stated that Calvinists continually oppose the Arminian view but pretend not to be able to actually "state that view".

    This is a perfect example.

    I have no idea "why" they play that game but it is facinatig to watch.
     
  8. Ed Edwards

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    You will not see me here very much.
    Except sometimes i forget to check which
    forum i went to
    from the "new posts" page.

    I think God may act like Calvin describes
    (though it seems unlikely that any person
    could figure this out)
    I observe that people acts like Arminian describes.
    I cannot know the Mind of God at all occasions.
    So i must act like Arminian was right.

    Nothing left to discuss.
    So i stay away from the heat (except on
    three dog nights [​IMG] )
     
  9. FLMike

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    WHAT...IN...THE...HECK...IS...THAT...ABOUT???
     
  10. FLMike

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    I don't know what that means, "sovereign in salvation".

    Does not every action of the creature also bring glory to the Creator?

    What seems self-evident to one is not automatically self-evident to another.
     
  11. FLMike

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    OK, thanks for the pointer.
     
  12. Wes Outwest

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    A patently false statement from one claiming to declare the truth!
     
  13. ILUVLIGHT

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    Hi FL Mike;
    I'm here because I don't believe either views of Arminian or Calvinism is completely true. I believe that only scripture is true and is all we need. The opinions of men are not God's opinion.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
  14. BobRyan

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    WHAT...IN...THE...HECK...IS...THAT...ABOUT??? </font>[/QUOTE]TC is a bit of a wildcard. More Calvinist than Calvin but likes to say he is not Calvinst.

    Not sure where that stray rocket comment came from -- left field mostly.
     
  15. BobRyan

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    Calvinism likes to point out "it is ALL of God and NONE of ME" and to make that point "stick" the 4 and 5 point Calvinists will say that FIRST you are SAVED - born again - and then you DISCOVER IT and CHOOSE Life (because God causes you to).

    It is a perfect "ALL of God" solution. It just looks like "arbitrary selection" when you "notice" that God forgot to "CHOOSE EVERYONE" for that ride.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  16. Hardsheller

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    I'm here because it's a part of my Denomination's History.

    I would prefer it if this forum were a Baptist Only forum and I would prefer to discuss Calvinism/Arminianism from strictly a Theological and Historical point of view.

    But this is all we have so here I am - A Southern Baptist Calvinist who would prefer to discuss this with other Southern Baptists.
     
  17. BobRyan

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    The don't call him Hardsheller for nuthin.
     
  18. Bro. James

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    Here to point out that the doctrines of salvation by grace through faith and salvation by works can be traced all the way back to the Garden of Eden.

    What were they called before Chauvin and Arminius? Surely they were not the first to come to the conclusions which have brought us to this debate.

    General rule: if man gets any glory whatsoever, there is something wrong with the theology. If man can choose good from bad using his faith then he can boast. That is completely contrary to the plain teaching of scripture.

    It has to be 100% grace not 99 plus 1 or any other admixture.

    These teachings were in the first assembly and have been in every generation even until today.

    We proclaim these things in many parts of the world--to every creature.

    Selah,

    Bro. James
     
  19. Hardsheller

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    :D :D
     
  20. Timtoolman

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    Let me tackle this strawman one more time. Is choice a work? Is it part of salvation if man must make a decision?
    First off let us make it clear that no one on here has said man is part of salvation cept maybe calvinist using the strawman. That comes from calvinist blinders. From not really listening to what the other is saying. This will never stop. They need to build that strawman to argue.
    Here is the way it is. If Christ had not died, or God had not given Him would man be able to choose God? Bible Believers say no. Man could not chose God, could not will God to forgive or save them. So where does salvation lay. With God. NOw lets look at the work HE HAS done so that man can believe. Sent The savoir, gave us His word, Bible, gives us the HS to convict and gave us nature that cries out there is a God. NOw without those things we agree man could not gain fellowship with God. But God has made it possiable by these things (HIS WORK)For man to once again fellowship with God. He has done all the work. Calvinist say if man has a choice that is making God weak. I say if that is God's plan how dare I tell Him that He is weak. I wonder why the calvinist do not say God is weak when Isreal disobeyed Him or when Moses, daved or others disobeyed Him. Why do they not say " hey God tells someone what He wants done and yet the person does't do it, God doesn't make him so He must be weak" No we look at it as "yeah God could force Him to do it but didn't cause His will will be done anyways." The logic of recieving a gift as work is illogical and a very pathetic atempt at trying to make calvin's teaching fit bible doctrine.

    IN Christ.
    Tim
     

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