Why attack Christians?

==We are not critical of seminaries for being unaccredited. We are critical of seminaries that claim false accreditation and/or don't demand the proper work load from students for a particular level degree. Graduate students should do graduate level work. A person should not be allowed to earn a graduate degree when they have only done undergraduate work. An unaccredited school is fine as long as (a) they state upfront that they are unaccredited (b) they demand proper amount/level of work.

==I don't know what you mean by that. I have seen very few unloving remarks. I have seen, and made, plenty of very harsh remarks. Since when should we be kind or loving towards people/institutions that take people's money under false pretenses? Such people/institutions need to be exposed.

==No. The focus should be on the quality of education the school offers its students. In other words we must answer this question: Does the school demand proper academic work for the degrees it offers?

==That's fine. I suppose Andersonville would be ok for that. However there are less questionable routes such as Bible Institutes (etc) or, better yet, personal Bible study. A person does not need to earn a degree to learn the Word of God. A person would not go to medical school or law school just for fun, would they? I doubt it. In the same way I don't know why someone would want a graduate degree in theology (etc) unless they have career goals in that area. For those just wanting to learn more there are plenty of less expensive ways to do that.

==If you don't want debate/discussion then why did you post this?

==I don't know. Is it pleasing in the eyes of the Lord when a "Christian" school claims to be accredited when it is not? Is it pleasing in the eyes of the Lord when a school offers MDivs/MAs/PhDs to students who have not done MDiv/MA/PhD level work? Is it pleasing in the eyes of the Lord when a "christian" school takes shortcuts instead of fulfilling its obligations to its students (etc)? The reason you see harsh comments on this board directed towards some schools is that we believe the answer to each of those questions is no.

==So you are saying a "christian" school is being a good witness when it willfully lowers its standards? I hope not.

==Then why did you post this? To make yourself feel better? If you don't wish to debate/discuss then I don't understand why you would come here and post.

==I am not sure that is totally true since I have seen some very questionable schools advertised on this forum. However nobody on this forum has any control over what schools advertise here and what schools don't.

 

A Matter of Perspective I Suppose

Jprieto,

I'm not sure that there is an attitude of cruelty in regard to unaccredited or "under accredited" seminaries and Bible colleges on this board; it is a matter of accountability.

Many on this board hold advanced degrees from what some may consider prominent institutions or highly respected small institutions, (some of which are UA, unaccredited). Others serve as professors, mentors, or advisers, with schools that fit the above criteria as well.

Most of the comments in that vain, seem to me at least, to be in the spirit of wall-building for a standard of protection of the sanctity of the pulpit, the vibrancy of preaching and ministry in general, and the biblical literacy, ministerial competency of those who seek to lead. Many of these comments from hearts rent with concern for the state of affairs of the Church in general.

The standards for minsitry, biblical literacy, and the things of God have fallen short in much of the Church, be it Baptist or otherwise. I can strongly attest to this in the Congregational Churches, where I serve as Pastor, where the walls of biblical truth are in a sad state of disrepair... (Google the United Church of Christ for examples of this)... :tonofbricks: ...

As a Conservative Congregational Pastor, I, like many on this board, am concerned for raising the wall of truth.

Remember the words of Nehemiah upon returning to the Holy City of Jerusalem after the Babylonian Captivity, "They said to me, "The remnant that remains from the exile there in the province are experiencing considerable adversity and reproach. The wall of Jerusalem lies breached, and its gates have been burned down!" When I heard these things I sat down abruptly, crying and mourning for several days. I continued fasting and praying before the God of heaven." Nehemiah 1:3-4 NET)

Just as Nehemiah wept over the fall of the city walls of God's Holy City, so too, many here weep over the fall of rigorous standards in many circles for the training of those would equip the saints unto every good work.

Many blessings my dear brother in Christ.

 

I sorry the poster feels that way, but most unaccredited schools are not good.

They require some work, but not anything substantial.

People need to realize that quantity is not the same as quality.

Only two unaccredited schools I'll gladly recommend: 1. Whitefield. 2. Columbia Evangelical Seminary.

I really know of no other.

But always try to invest in an accredited degree first. Always.

 

What is the basis of your opinion?

What do you think of what John and Jesus said to the Pharisees?

Matthew 3:6-8 (King James Version)

6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.


7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:


Matthew 12:33-35 (King James Version)

33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.


34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

These are not very kind and nice words.

 

Couple of warnings.

All bold is not allowed. It's considered a flame of sorts.

I will allow very little lattitude here as to the general tenor/tone/topic. We've hashed this out a lot before and we can quickly slip into strawmen, ad hominem, and the like. Not happening here on my watch.

Proceed with caution. Lots of it.

 

Well...once I finish my M.B.A., then my Doctorate for ministry/theology, I'd like to do law school. But I'm an odd bird. :laugh:

 

The only people Jesus were condemned were the religionists.

Have you bothered to take a serious look at any of the non-accredited schools and what the credentials of the teachers are. Many I have looked at, have faculty who have not earned a doctorate but was given one by another as though they were passing out doctorates free of charge and free of any scholarly work. They do not meet the same standards of scholarship as those in other fields.

 

Why Christians Attack Christians

There is a difference between being critical and attacking. If none were willing to say pointedly critical things where would we be and what would the church believe in today (how many of our great doctrines were forged in the fire and on the anvil of controversy - which necessarily included polemical criticism?) And criticism as a tool is biblical; read Jesus and Paul and James (et. al.).

The remark by Dr. Bob that you are upset about is mild and not inappropriate. He used the word 'shabby' where it might have been better to say 'inadequate', but that is being picky. At the end of the day, we often react to how things are said when we do not like what was said (the substance). You might not like what was said about UA schools (or one UA school in particular), and if so, argue why you think that that UA school is good and useful instead of worrying about the tone with which UA schools are disparaged. Dr. Bob and others made excellent points about why one should stay away from a UA school, and that is substance.

 

Cut and paste!

Sorry about the bold but I did a quick cut and paste job. The Scripture simply came out as bold with the pasting. I neglected to click the bold off. It was a technical thing, not an intentional emphasis. I wasn't thinking about netequitte. Thanks for the lattitude.

 

Dear Brother,

I find it amusing that you come into this forum condemning the BB posters for their hostile attitude and making personal attacks; and yet, you engage in the exact activity for which you condemn others. It is against BB protocol for any poster to question the salvation of another poster. When you refer to your fellow posters as "so called Christians" you have both questioned their salvation and engaged in making a personal attack against them. This is a violation of BB Posting Rules 3 and 4.

I can appreciate the intent of your message; however, you were not very careful with some of the words and statements you chose to use. Likewise, if you have a problem with a post please use the "Report Bad Post" icon in the top right corner of each post and wait for the forum moderator to take action. Starting threads where you take issue with another poster's post and calling them on the carpet is not helpful nor conducive to the spirit of reconciliation. Publically calling out a BB Administrator (apparently) without going to said Admin in private first is not smart and does not fall in line with the teaching of Matthew 18:15-20.

 

I don't know why anyone is arguing over anything. None of you have a leg to stand on. The only command in the Bible to study the word is 2 Timothy 2:15, [Removal of versions/translation debate material. All version/transaltion debates/discussions must take place in the BVT Forum.]

 

I have found that most who complain about so called attacks on non-accredited schools are those who have attended such schools. Any criticism, no matter the source or validity, is viewed as being an attack. Now, to attend a non-accredited school is one's personal choice. But, when that degree is not accepted by an employer or not held with high esteem by others one gets upset. What do you expect? The reality is very simple whether one likes it or not. Those with accredited degrees enjoy greater job opportunities (and rightly so) and better respect. If one doesn't like that I would suggest, that instead of complaining, get an accredited degree. I know that as a senior pastor, with all other things being equal, I'll look at a staff member candidate with an accredited degree before one with a non-accredited degree. Honestly, I find it hard to trust the legitimacy of a degree from a non-accredited school. And, I think reality would suggest that most would share my bias.

 

Opinions are great and each can have his own but there is one far greater that should be on all our minds. Rom. 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way.

Edited to say before anyone pounces, I don't feel the regulars in this section are judging others in particular - that is up to their minds eye and the Lord's to determine, the thought I wanted to make was more along the lines of we all stand before Him as individuals to give account for what we have done and/or not done.

 

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2 Timothy 2:15 verse involves much more than just intellectual study as what the king's men suggested. It involves an understanding of what it means to be unashamed and approved by God following a straight path. A study of the Greek text will quickly reveal such a thing and do away with any erroneous interpretation and translation. There is a lot of crooked exegesis of that verse. A careful look at the Greek text will quickly reveal such aberration.

 

Warning

This is a public warning: Bible version debates are NOT for this forum. If I see any more of it from the parties guilty in this thread, I will seek immediate disciplinary action from the administrative council. Either obey the rules you signed up to abide by, or hit the door.