Why can't Chritians have free speech?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by graceb2u, Nov 8, 2004.

  1. graceb2u

    graceb2u
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    I don't know why I can't have my beliefs and views. Why can't I say what I believe?

    1. If I say I do not like gays: I am a gay basher.

    2. If I say I do not agree with abortion: I'm told that I am a woman hater.

    3. If I say I do not like this person and they are of a different race: I'm prejudice.

    4. If I tell people my husband hunts: They say we are animal killers.

    5. If I say that people should be able to own guns: I get told I am adding to the violence in America.

    6. If I say that there is to much violence on TV, in the movies and the music: I get told I am trying to censor.

    I just want to know why Christians can't have there views in this country without being labeled? It seems to me all the liberals can!
     
  2. corinne

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    That is not so because you are a Christian, but because you are anti-gay, anti-abortion, and whatever else. This has nothing to do with your religious belief. Not all Christians are anti-gays or pro-life and a lot of Liberals are pro-choice and not gay-oriented either, so it is not a question of religion.

    Corinne
     
  3. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    The "other side" could say the same thing about Christians.

    For example:

    1) If I support gay rights - I am a queer lover.

    2) If I support a woman's right to choice - I am a baby killer.

    etc, etc.

    If you hold a point of view - expect to be criticised. It goes both ways.

    In case you are wondering - I (basically)hold to the same values you expressed in your OP.
     
  4. Daisy

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    That's quite a whine. If you can't hold on to your beliefs and views because of a bit of criticism from folks you distain, then it must be because you're too weak-minded to hold on to them.

    That's homophobia, not gay bashing - gay bashing is when you say nasty things about them as a class or when you literally take a baseball bat and hit them (a sport to some).

    By whom?

    Only if you dislike them because they are of a different race.

    Well? Isn't that the goal?

    I believe it's the death rather than the violence that have the James Bradyists up in arms.

    That would be true if you are trying to get the violence removed, but so what?

    Seems to me that you are labeling your critics as liberals whether they are actually liberals or mere busybodies. No one is actually stopping you from spouting your views, but it seems like you want to quiet your critics. Hypocrisy much?

    Furthermore, none of the things on your list are specifically Christian - other Christians may disagree and non-Christians may agree.
     
  5. Hardsheller

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    Daisy,

    I'd like for you to define homophobia for us.
     
  6. Daisy

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    Fear and loathing of homosexuals for being homosexuals.
     
  7. Gershom

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    hehe...
     
  8. tragic_pizza

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    Fear and loathing of homosexuals for being homosexuals. </font>[/QUOTE]For the record, this is opposed to disagreeing with the practice and choice of homosexual behavior, while still embracing those practicing this sin as human beings as in need of the love and forgiveness of Jesus Christ as are we.

    Personally, I cringe whenever I see someone use the word "sodomite" on this board. It reeks of fear and loathing.
     
  9. Scott J

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    Fear and loathing of homosexuals for being homosexuals. </font>[/QUOTE]If only liberals would be consistent in using this definition and not jump to conclusions about those who don't agree with the homosexual movement's agenda.

    I neither hate nor fear homosexuals. I do both hate and fear the sin that they are determined to normalize. I hate it because God calls it an abomination. I fear it because it has a destructive effect on society- and my children have to grow up in whatever world we leave them.

    We already have problems with the destructive impact of heterosexual sins and divorce being commonly acceptable. These cannot be the basis for continuing our cultural decay by promoting homosexual "rights".

    Call me what you like. I am not motivated by hate against these people. In fact, I love them in Christ. I make every effort to treat the ones I know with kindness and charity... but I will not side with them against God on whether their behavior is normal and moral.
     
  10. Scott J

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    Well? Isn't that the goal?[/quote][/qb] Yep. Took my eleven year old out deer hunting on Saturday. He didn't get anything yet but hopefully will next week.

    BTW, PETA style liberals hate the purveyors of such cruelty... but sensible people recognize game management and hunting as a means of ensuring the health of the wildlife population.

    I believe it's the death rather than the violence that have the James Bradyists up in arms.</font>[/QUOTE] It is noteworthy that the 2000 "red" counties have a murder rate of 2 per 100,000 while the blue counties have a murder rate of 13 per 100,000.

    Some of you may know the world stats better than me but if I remember correctly the red counties would compare positively to other advanced nations in the world while the blue counties reflect very poorly.

    Compare this with the fact that "red" county residents are much more likely to have a firearm in the home.

    This is just one more thing the liberal elite is in denial about. The areas they dominate are the most violent. The downtrodden that they supposedly care more about are the most likely to be victims. Their solution: Impose gun laws that will primarily effect the already law abiding gun owners in "red" counties.

    They do this so they don't have to deal with the demagraphics of violence. To do so would reveal the utter failure of their ideals- particularly concerning urban black communities.

    Seems to me that you are labeling your critics as liberals whether they are actually liberals or mere busybodies. No one is actually stopping you from spouting your views, but it seems like you want to quiet your critics. Hypocrisy much?</font>[/QUOTE] I think you are missing the point of this frustration.

    Alot of us are frustrated by the dominance of media outlets by pompous liberal elitists. Our views are almost never accurately discussed and are virtually never treated with respect. Fox News popularity among conservatives is no accident. They are the only TV network that doesn't hold complete contempt for us.

    Everything is specifically Christian if our objective is to submit to God's will. The disagreement between people is a non-issue. Only one opinion counts and our objective should be to find out what that opinion is... and agree with it.
     
  11. graceb2u

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    That's quite a whine. If you can't hold on to your beliefs and views because of a bit of criticism from folks you distain, then it must be because you're too weak-minded to hold on to them.


    I am not whining Daisy. Nor am I weak minded. I believe this country was founded on the freedom of religion. I should have a right to say what I want to without the liberal media interfering. I believe every Christian should.
     
  12. tragic_pizza

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    What about nonChristian faiths?
     
  13. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Free speech and a free press also give others the right to be critcal of your speech.

    Has anyone silenced you for expressing your views - or are they just critical?
     
  14. Johnv

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    Good point, C4K. Freedom of speech is not a pass to be free of other peoples' freedom of speech. It goes both ways.
     
  15. corinne

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  16. Daisy

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    How exactly does the "liberal media" interfere with your saying what you want? Do you think it knows who you are and what you say?

    You want to know why you can't have your beliefs and views...Well, what happened to them? I'd also like to know why you don't have your beliefs - were you brainwashed, unduly influenced by the media? If you've really lost them, they can't have been very strongly held, it seems to me.

    If you do have your beliefs, why are you asking why you can't? That is what I meant by "whine". If you have a better, more politic word for it, let me know and I'll use that instead.

    [C4K said much the same thing, but much nicer [​IMG] ]
     
  17. JesusandGeorge04

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    Which is equal rights... why shouldn't I support that?

    There is no distinct line between someone and their sexual orientation; to hate and fear homosexuality is to a great degree hating and fearing them.

    'Unto yourself'... a purity crime, much like eating shellfish or touching pork.

    How exactly is it destructive? Be specific and referenced.

    It's funny how people will jump on wedge issues when it comes to cultural decay, but support the economic undermining of the lower and middle -class American family through legislation that supports the big businesses and the wealthy... both of whom run the 'cultural decay' you speak of.

    I think you need to review what God feels is more important.
     
  18. JesusandGeorge04

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    Actually, the American South is more violent than other areas of the nation. Keep also in mind that urban areas have a different set of pressures than suburban or rural areas, and thus may have more crime. And it needs to be stated again... putting a gun in a home increases the likelihood of the killing or maiming of a familiy member... by that gun, far more than any potential benefits from defending against an intruder.

    Well, as conservatives have rolled back community programs for years, how are we to know what our ideals would have done?
    qb] I think you are missing the point of this frustration.

    Perhaps because they are a part of the conservative propaganda arm, making sure all of you are distracted with social issues while they pass economic legislation against your family and mine? TV networks are in this for the profit... that's it, and conservatives pay better.
     
  19. Daisy

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    Some people have watched "Bambi" once too often. The "natural" death of a deer is to starve to death in the winter, succumb to disease and parasites or, worst of all, have its belly torn open by predators. Nature is not as kind as hunters.

    I don't think PETA people are actual liberals. They only seem to care about this single issue which they sometimes take too far. I do agree with them as far as chicken and egg farming - unnecessary cruelty must be avoided.

    Garrison Keillor was funny on that - he was talking about free-range turkeys and how they lived fulfilling lives with hobbies and friends...

    Well, yes, but that is why, generally speaking, the blue states are against just anyone owning guns, especially handguns. In the densely populated areas, guns are bad news. You might also want to note, though, that the highschool mass murders are not in the urban areas, although I don't know what percentage of folk are registered as which.

    I don't know the stats either, but the murder rates in most urban areas have dropped significantly in the last 10 years.

    I don't think they deny it; on the contrary, it is of intense concern.

    By the way, are you distinguishing between the liberal elite and the liberal regulars? Or is that just a catchphrase you like to use (real question)?

    That's hardly surprising that over-crowded, poor areas have more crime. They also get less protection, unfortunately. Some of the changes in policing seem to be helping - targeting where the crimes are occuring on a day to day basis, community based police, with more foot patrols, etc.

    What is the solution? The main problem with local gun control laws is that it is too easy to buy a gun elsewhere and bring it into the city.

    That's way oversimplistic; I don't think you really know what's going on with real liberals, the non-tv kind.

    News Flash! Liberals are also treated with contempt by the pompous media elitists. They, the media elitists, are not true liberals, idealists, for the most part. If you kept score, you'd know that they take potshots at everyone - you probably only notice when it's you that gets hit.

    Gun ownership is specifically Christian? Tell that to the guys in Pakistan.
     
  20. Johnv

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    OTOH, is not individual liberty a cherished right for us? Do we not have the cherished right to sin, so long as it does not affect another person's individual liberties? For example, each of us has the right to take the Lord's name in vain, which, on Superbowl Sunday in the privacy of our own homes, many of us will inadvertently do. Should this be outlawed?

    It's a sin to reject Christ. Should we make the practice of orthodox Judaism illegal?

    Sloth and gluttony are a sin. Should we make overeating a crime?

    Many here consider it a sin to not be fruitful and multiply. Should the state make it mandatory that all married persons have children?

    Many consider the Christmas tree a pagan symbol. Should it be illegal for me to display one?

    Drunkenness is a sin. I think we tried this with a Constitutional amendment, and a repeal of the same.
     

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