Why Church doesn't fit most people

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Earth Wind and Fire, Apr 11, 2015.

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  1. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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  2. preachinjesus

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    His point are valid, I'd personally say that most lost people don't fit in church because its an other-worldly gathering of the redeemed.

    Too often in our attractional model, seeker sensitive based churches we forget there is a dynamic at play that we can't see and something we can't necessarily understand. Those who are not in Christ have no unifying Spirit with those who are in Christ when it comes to the church. We must be careful about that.

    I'd also point out that our churches are intended to be cultural, economic, and social crossroads where folks from diverse backgrounds and lives find a common table to gather around and enjoy fellowship. That is certainly odd for many people.
     
  3. Darrell C

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    It is reminiscent of another article entitled "The Dones" which I disagree with. That people have a mentality that attending fellowship revolves around their particular satisfaction suggests a shallow mentality in regards to worship and fellowship. It's hard, really, to find a fellowship we are completely satisfied with, and I can understand becoming dissatisfied with the one/s we attend, but there is a general principle of having a home fellowship where we can first go to worship, as well as learn of God and fellowship with other believers. Not to mention...having somewhere we can invite unbelievers.

    A few reasons I can think of concerning absenteeism would be, well, the fellowship/s don't meet the standard of the individual. If that is the case then perhaps that individual might do well to have their standard examined. Most of those I speak with that detest the views of others are usually found to have not only unorthodox views but much of the times they are simply heretical.

    No wonder they don't want to go.

    Personally, for me, what I have learned in fellowship is that it is a training ground of sorts, an arena where we can put the love we have for God and fellow believers to test. It is simply going to happen that any time more than two people are in a room...there will be problems. I used to search for that fellowship that met my standard but have long ago given up on it, finding instead a desire to exist in an environment where everyone else is wrong about so much.

    ;)

    Seriously, though, I am against the trend that seeks to advocate abandoning corporate fellowship in favor of...staying home. Consider that many who fellowship are new believers who are in desperate need of a stable environment which consists of mature believers willing and able to help them grow.

    What happens if they stay home?

    I don't mean to imply that our attendance should be the only avenue of growth, and think that forums such as these are great tools to accelerate growth and understanding, but, to forsake a traditional attendance that goes back and is exampled by the Early Church could spell spiritual suicide for many. Doesn't mean I think they would lose their salvation, if in fact they are saved, it just means that the likely result is going to be a continuing departure from the spiritual things of God. Again, I think that many who lay out cater to their own demand for how things are going to be, and one thing we can say about corporate worship is that a certain amount of accountability results which we do not find in pursuing a solo spiritual life.

    This is in general, mind you, and does not speak to those who through physical reasons are not able to participate.

    God bless.
     
  4. McCree79

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    I don't even agree with some of the reasons the minority goes. So the "paid" people can do the work???? I don't know of anyone with that attitude. Not saying they don't exist. The education part. I wish people had an academic view of church. I think most go to "be closer to God" through worship.

    I will change my earlier reply some. As I think about it, some do show up without Bibles. Ones that I know have Bibles. I think it may be more of, "I dont know how to use my bible " ,then I will just let the preacher teach me. We(believers) don't do enough to teach others how to study the Bible. They then google stuff......which may lead them to an apostate site. Them not know scripture, thinks church becomes irrelevant to them.

    On the other side: The ones who don't go. Because, they can't participate in discussion???? Sunday school is a great format for that. Only about 65%-70% of our church members attend Sunday school. Most classes have great participation. This makes for a great learning atmosphere.

    Something is obviously wrong with church attendance. Some of the points made maybe valid,such as points about the internet, and auditory. Some are just excuses. I agree more with the reasons given people dont attend church, then his comments on those that do attend. Personal relationships are important. People want that. Outreach events and a strong educational Sunday School program are more important for church growth and educational growth amoung this new generation.

    Anyway, barna has done a great study on the new generation of church members. I haven't read it all yet. I recently discovered it.

    https://www.barna.org/barna-update/...ials-want-when-they-visit-church#.VSk1TnMo7qA
     
  5. Tom Bryant

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    Don't worry, Barna will come out with a new one that will be different from this one in a while.

    I think the OP has it right in some areas. If a person comes to church just to watch and never get involved with a small group such as a SS class and a ministry, they are not likely to keep coming to church.

    I like sports as a spectator, but church, not so much.
     
  6. nodak

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    Easter Sunday we were with family and visited a church we wouldn't pick for ourselves. It is clearly heading for a split.

    The reason is the people in the congregation feel they are expected to do nothing BUT watch the service. We ran into some of them a couple of days later at a restaurant and they asked our "outsider" opinion of the service.

    Here is what is happening to them: it is a smallish, very traditional congregation. Lots of senior citizens, lots of younger families with kids, not a lot of families with teens. The song leader and the pianist declared they were bored with the hymns, gospel songs, and liturgy. (It isn't a Baptist church.) So they introduced a pretty hard rock version of CCM. Promptly blew out the sound system. They don't care. The music was deafening from the instruments, but you could not make out the vocals. They were using an old overhead projector to put the words on a wall. The guy doing the sheets of words couldn't keep the right words on the wall, apparently. So no one sang except those up on stage, who were having a rocking good time. But to get that praise team, they had open lesbians, openly shacking up straights, some into the drug culture, and serial divorce/remarry folks. Not that they were FORMER folks doing those things and God had cleaned up their lives. Nope, none of that legalism for them.

    The pastor made it clear he thinks this is cool--that it will attract folks to join the church and he hopes that will eventually lead to their becoming believers.

    Our opinion when asked was that if we were part of that church, either the praise team and preacher or we would be leaving. That simple.

    Since that is the only church of their denom in that town, I would expect many of those folks will be live streaming worship from other churches in their denom instead of attending this Sunday.
     
    #6 nodak, Apr 11, 2015
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  7. Earth Wind and Fire

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    You will have to unpack that one for me Tom. What I hear you saying is SS is the key to church involvement??? Is that it?
     
  8. Tom Bryant

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    Sorry, I wasn't clear. I am saying that if people just come to watch "church", they won't stay long. If a church doesn't continually call people to smaller group Bible studies such as SS, and to a real ministry opportunity, they will leave.

    Just going to a church worship service will be turn people into spectators and spectators soon leave.

    We try to mention consistently the phrase "3 to Thrive" (those who went to TTU will remember the phrase) but our goal is that everyone ought to be a part of 3 activities: a large group worship service, a small group Bible study and a ministry.

    Not sure if this has answered anything.
     
  9. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Oh it has...thanks. People have to find value in the place. You can see that the elderly do and that's ok, but I'm not sure that the 20 somethings get it.They have tons to do in their lives besides church. A friend of mine took Easter week off to go with his daughter to a place in Kentucky to build houses for Habitat. He indicated it was transformative. And I personally find that exciting....you bond with your kid, interact with others, do good for others and get out of your comfort zone...and he did this with his Catholic Church.

    I personally get charged up by active community involvement.....ie, having Christians doing things for others and sharing the gospel with others. Not interested in churches that don't do that.
     
  10. HAMel

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    Society today has too many pastimes/interests and church attendance is of no concern.
     
  11. Rebel

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    This is hedonism, not the gospel.
     
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

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    I'm not sure if it's past times or getting caught up in living. I've very little time to get things done and Sunday is free so......

    But that's a choice made by the individual. For me personally, God is honored everyday, in prayer, in actions and speech, in study etc.
     
  13. HAMel

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    Earth, Wind & Fire, I'm like you. If you just look around it's not hard to see that we're inundated with commercialism. Cable TV with almost unlimited channels; cell phones for the youth to play with; social networks; the internet in general..., which by the way opens this forum for us to tinker with.

    My formative years was during the 1950's. I had an aunt and uncle that lived on a farm on the Ohio River. After supper the "elders" would congregate on the front porch or at the kitchen table and after a while one of them would say..., "Well, it's getting late. Think I'll turn in," and it was only 8:30. Kids now-a-days head out for their parties about 11 PM. Even as a teenager I was home no later than midnight on the weekends.

    The world is running in overdrive today and the youth are so trying to keep up as they've been convinced it's cool to do so. If a parent has a conservative child in today's climate they are very fortunate. I had a grand daughter that sent over 20,000 text messages in a six month time frame. Amazing. How can the church compete with this? I've witnessed teenagers in today's world text each other while sitting in the pew.
     
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Hmmmm, I just think millennials have other things to do than go to church. First they don't want to be judged and I'm going out on a limb here and suggesting they generally have lifestyles not in keeping with Christian ethics....perhaps their sex lives or ways of relaxing don't fit and they don't want to come to a place to be reminded of it. But for me at 58, I've been through all that so that's not my stumbling block to going to church. Mine is more communial....or more appropriately a lack of community outreach....maybe it's lack of the desire to really go out to the people that turns me off. See Christ didn't...he served the community....he walked among the sinners, he talked to prostitutes and tax collectors and he healed the unclean. He got His hands dirty. I've really been tempted to go without a shower for a few days, wear ragged clothes, drink a pint of whiskey and sit out on the porch of some of these fine churches and beg....Then maybe I'd know....that's where the rubber meets the road.:tonofbricks:
     
  15. Tom Bryant

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    So what kind of assistance would prove that they care?
     
  16. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Oh....how bout any.

    Tom, my father died when I was very young. My mother was left a widow.....but there was a special concern, see my older sister was severely cerebral palsy due to meningitis. We were 3 kids and mom was limited in working due to my sister. Please tell me what you would have done.
     
    #16 Earth Wind and Fire, Apr 12, 2015
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  17. nodak

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    I guess maybe I'm a bit cynical re the outreach to those in need.

    See, at church this morning during the SS time a lady came into the church. Dressed in those rags, and what seemed to me a whiff of our newly legalized mj.

    She asked for money for food. Said her husband is diabetic and really needed to eat quickly. Pastor said no to the money, but offered to get her food from our food pantry. There was mostly canned stuff. Some could be opened and eaten immediately if the dude was really needing food quickly. Otherwise, there would be a several day supply of food to cook.

    Lady told the pastor she doesn't like to cook, it isn't really her thing, and asked if during the service he would take a special donation for her. He said no, but again offered food. She got angry and left.

    Would Jesus have handled it differently?
     
  18. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Sure he would have known she was a faker.....but tell me what did he say scripturially about giving to those who ask?

    Back to my own past situation. The Catholic Priests in the day blanketed the town (honestly not a big town) and they came to talk, to pray, to help in many ways. Not that we asked, but by staying in touch, they knew. Years later, a Presbyterian Pastor in another small community by mine went out into the street late in the night to confront a young man who had just lost his wife to cancer who was becoming a chronic drunk and not well parenting his two small children. See both of these situations required churches to be socially aware.....to know when someone was hurting and then take action.....and I don't say your particular churches don't do it, but up here that type of civility appears to be a thing of the past. I don't know how many churches where I live who don't have local outreach...it is terribly sad.
     
  19. Reformed

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    I read the link in the OP. The author made some good observations but no valid reasons as to why Christians should not attend church (although that may not have been the point he was trying to make).
     
  20. Earth Wind and Fire

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    You may be more in tuned to Arthur Pink than I am. What was his reasoning for avoiding attendence?
     
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