Why Did The TR...

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by TCGreek, Aug 27, 2007.

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  1. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    Why was the Textus Receptus reading of μη γενοιτο translated "God forbid"?
     
  2. larryjf

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    The phrase means "may it not come into existence."
    As far as i know there are no versions that translate this word-for-word.
    There is nothing wrong with the KJV rendering "God forbid" as it conveys the meaning of the underlying text. You could look at it that since God is the one who brings things into existence, God is implicitly the one being called upon in the phrase.
     
  3. EdSutton

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    "Dynamic equivalence!" :laugh:

    Hmmm! Just thought of this. The NIV and NLT are not alone, in this use of this technique of DE!

    The Wyclif, Tyndale, Bishop's, Coverdale, Geneva, AV/KJV , Douai/Rheims, RV, ASV, RSV, Weymouth, Wesley, Weymouth, NASB, and NKJV all do it, with this phrase, as well!

    Guess 'DE' is not all that new, hunh??

    I mean, after all, its been around for more than six centuries!! :D :laugh:

    Thanks, TCGreek, for 'providing' an 'opportunity' that was too good to pass up. :thumbs:

    Ed
     
    #3 EdSutton, Aug 28, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 28, 2007
  4. franklinmonroe

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    Why portray me ginoito as just a TR reading?

    By the way, I think to apply 'dynamic equivalent' to idioms is a misuse of the term. If the translated expression is understood by the contemporary reader as the writer originally intended, then that is a literal translation (even if it uses inequivalent words). Extremely formal equivalence (similar to an interlinear translation) might render the source text in such a strict word-for-word manner that the idiom's meaning for the target audience might get lost. We have discussed this idiom not so long ago here, and in 1611 "God forbid" was probably the most appropriate English rendering.

    (BTW- can some one PM advise me on getting a Greek font)
     
    #4 franklinmonroe, Aug 28, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 28, 2007
  5. Salamander

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    Still is.

    Since this is really all about the Only True God and Saviour Jesus Christ, the term "God forbid" is the most literate example. To otherwise state this truth may lead the reader into considering false gods as the medium ( if I can use that term here) of which things exist.

    Taken in full context, the reader can realize that evry good nad perfect gift cometh down from the Father of lights and everything that isn't a good and perfect gift doesn't.

    KJB? Still PRECISE!
     
  6. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    "God forbid" is not a literal rendering. "May it never be" is more true to the Greek, whether in the TR or any other texts.
     
  7. larryjf

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    The only thing is "may it never be" is not an idiom that i hear folks use at all... "God forbid" is an idiom that people use, both in the 1600's and today.
     
  8. TCGreek

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    And how do we determine that the Greek is idiomatic?
     
  9. larryjf

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    If it's not idiomatic are you arguing for the phrase to mean that something should not come into existence?
    In Rom 3:4, exactly what is it referring to that should not come into existence if it's not an idiom?
    most translations (outside of the nasb) seem to translate it idiomatically.
     
  10. Keith M

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    Don't see why you shouldn't use that term here. It's not like you're saying someone should consult a medium as in a seance or reaing a crystal ball or tarot cards or tea leaves or something else just as wacky...
     
  11. TCGreek

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    1. Larry, you are the one who says it is idiomatic. So I'm asking for evidence of that.

    2. V.3 answers your question.
     
  12. Salamander

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    I just knew it would make things crawl out of the cracks here :smilewinkgrin:
     
  13. franklinmonroe

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    Is "May it never be" just relatively more true, or absolutely literal?

    The following two anecdotes are thought to be merely amusing stories (not an actual translation errors) but it speaks to the literal translation of idioms --

    If the sentence "The spirit is strong, but the flesh is weak" was translated into Russian and then back to English, the result might be "The vodka is good, but the meat is rotten."

    Similarly, the result of a literal translation of the English idiom, "What’s up?" into French (and then reported back in English) could be "Towards the top of that which is?"

    "Literal translation can also denote a translation that represents the precise meaning of the original text but does not attempt to convey its style, beauty, or poetry."
     
  14. Salamander

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    TC, when you take into account that it's the Holy Spirit that lets/ allows to come to pass, "God forbid" is still best. It keeps the view perfectly that the Lord is still in control.

    "May it never be" doesn't place the emphasis as it would otherwise mean that "it might be" but would definitely be against the will of God if it was to be, or as it should be, not to be!
     
  15. Salamander

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    "Literal translation can also denote a translation that represents the precise meaning of the original text but does not attempt to convey its style, beauty, or poetry."

    Thus we have the King James Bible, which does convey the poetic value in an eloquent style and a beauty that has never been matched.

    :smilewinkgrin: Thank you for pointing that out.:smilewinkgrin:
     
  16. TCGreek

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    Context controls communication. God forbids that it should be conceived any other way.
     
  17. Salamander

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    I most assuredly agree with you on that! God forbid that anything contrary to His will ever be.:thumbsup:
     
  18. TCGreek

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    "May it never be" is a fine translation, but if "God forbid" captures the Greek well, then "May it never be" any other way.
     
  19. EdSutton

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    Like a salamander, maybe?? :D

    Ed
     
  20. franklinmonroe

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    The Concordant Literal version comes close with "may it not be coming to that!"
     
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