Why do infants die?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Dale-c, Aug 16, 2009.

  1. Dale-c

    Dale-c
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    In another thread it has been said that infants are not sinners.
    The idea is that until they are old enough to know what sin is, they are not sinners and are not deserving of hell. Thus they go to heaven because there is no sin for them to be condemned.

    But why then do they die?

    How can they even die if they are sinless?

    God would be unjust to allow death to a sinless person, no matter the age.
     
  2. Tom Butler

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    Jesus was sinless, yet his body died.
     
  3. Amy.G

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    That was easy. :tongue3:
     
  4. Dale-c

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    Yes but he laid down His life as a willing sacrifice.
    Also He took upon Himself the sin of the world thus He took the wrath of the Father for that sin which was death.

    By the way, I am not advocating that all infants go to hell but rather that if they go to heaven it is by the grace of God and not their own sinlessness.
     
  5. Dale-c

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    Please don't tell me you are a pelagian now too Amy :(
     
  6. Amy.G

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    You said "how can infants die if they are sinless"?

    Tom said "Jesus was sinless, yet He died".

    Why did Jesus die when He was sinless?
     
  7. TCGreek

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    Infants are passive sinners because of their sin nature.
     
  8. Amy.G

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    Is that another way of saying they are not accountable for their sin?
     
  9. TCGreek

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    Accountability implies actively sinning.
     
    #9 TCGreek, Aug 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 16, 2009
  10. Trotter

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    The death of an infant may have nothing to do with the infant itself. God allows things for many different reasons, whether for a person's individual growth or to help someone else through the experiences of another.

    Having lost two infant children of our own I know a little about this. While neither experience was easy, both drew my wife and I to God... her as a wayward child, me as a lost sinner. Not only this but these losses also has allowed us to minister to others who have lost children in ways others cannot do.

    Did God have to take our two sons? No. But he is sovereign and I am not, so it is His decision to make and not mine. I can only accept that which He has given me, as we have our daughter who is now grown. The loss of our sons (one before her and one after) helped us to better nurture her and care for her.

    As for the eternal destination of these children, I cling to what David said... I cannot bring them back, but I can go to where they are. I am certain David died looking forward in faith and will be in heaven with our Lord, and so I look forward to seeing both of my boys one bright morning over there.
     
  11. Dale-c

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    Jesus took our sin. He laid down His life.
    Jesus was Himself the perfect sinless man yet He died when He took our sin and paid the penalty for us.
     
  12. Dale-c

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    I certainly do not have a problem with this statement but do you not agree that your sons will be there the same way you got there, by the shed blood of Christ on their behalf?
     
  13. Trotter

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    No one can come to the Father any other way. Jesus said all must have the faith as a small child... even David knew this.

    We inherit our sin nature from Adam and his fall. Once we are able we act on this sin nature and sin against God. An infant has not and cannot sin, leaving it still under Jesus' provision.

    The problem is that the bible does not give us a cut-and-dried answer to this. Anyone can pick either side apart if they really want to do so. This is something both my wife and I strugled with for quite a while, but God led us to His word. Our pastor was also a great help.
     
  14. Dale-c

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    This is the biggest problem. The Bible is almost silent on this issue. At the end of the day we just have to leave it to the God who is too wise to err.

    We know that no injustice will be done and that we serve a good God.
     
  15. Aaron

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    No, the problem is that we tend to judge infants by the outward appearanceā€”cute and cuddly and innocent.

    But God does not see as man sees. God sees the heart, and will punish a corrupt, unregenerated heart.
     
  16. Amy.G

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    He died physically because He was fully human in addition to being fully God.
     
  17. OldRegular

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    A good and very instructive post Trotter!
     
  18. Tom Butler

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    To paraphrase a famous sage, "'Tis better to keep your keyboard still and be thought a fool, than to start typing and remove all doubt." So here goes.

    I spoke to the OP, and pointed out that Jesus died, even though he is sinless. And yes, he did lay down his life and no one took it from him against his will. But, Peter preached that Jesus' crucifixion was by "wicked hands."

    A couple of statements and I'm outa here. Even though a newborn infant may be sinless for a time, he still has the sinful nature. And sooner or later, it will manifest itself. At least by the time he gets to the "terrible twos."

    You want to see concrete evidence of the sin nature in toddlers. Go watch the nursery kids for an hour. Listen for one word------"Mine!" Or two words----"I want it!"

    That's all, I'm staying out of the rest of this debate so I will be only thought a fool rather than prove it beyond all doubt.
     
  19. Carico

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    Psalm 51;5, "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."

    We are all conceived in sin since the fall. So we are all mortal whether we die in infancy or later in life.
     
  20. preachinjesus

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    post hoc ergo propter hoc

    While death is a result of the Fall we do not die just because of the Fall. The point about Jesus is a good one. Also, my beagle will die one day. She isn't sinful (though I sneakingly suspect a curse is on her to chew anything on the floor) in carrying the burden of the Fall. Yet she dies.

    The point about infants is that while they do carry the curse until the age whereby they are accountable before God they have a grace covering from God. I believe firmly in the age of accountability and that there is a necessary state of innocence in life until comprehension of sin.

    I really believe that we can think too theologically sometimes and in doing separate reality from theory.
     

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