Why do we do this?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by preacher4truth, Dec 30, 2010.

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Why do we do this?

  1. I believe the sinners prayer is necessary and biblical.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. I don't believe the sinners prayer is necessary nor biblical.

    86.7%
  3. I believe the sinners prayer model is an easy believism tactic.

    66.7%
  4. I believe we should ask if they want to go to heaven then lead them in a prayer.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. One must ask Jesus into ones heart.

    13.3%
  6. I've had to rethink my position on this and have moved toward a Biblical Model.

    40.0%
  7. The sinners prayer is a man made sacred cow.

    60.0%
  8. I don't lead persons through a prayer of salvation.

    60.0%
  9. I agree that praying to be saved is not based in Scripture.

    33.3%
  10. The sinners prayer has done some harm/has misled persons to believe they are genuinely converted.

    86.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
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    When persons become saved, or come forward to be saved, why do we:

    Have them pray for it? Is this Scriptural?

    Do you do this? Is there some other way you have this person show this transaction has taken place?

    Does praying a prayer finalize this salvation experience somehow? If the person doesn't pray a prayer at time of salvation, is it somehow nullified? Why then do we insist on a sinners prayer? Does it make us feel more secure about them, or is this some sacred cow we can live without, and present said persons some other way, other than through a sinners prayer? Perhaps we should work this out to a more biblical model? Share yours with us please if you do this different than this traditional method.

    Let's say a person comes to you to be saved? Why lead them through a prayer? I don't see this in Scriptures. There is nothing wrong with prayer, but this is not Scripturally supported.

    What also of asking Jesus into ones heart? Is this a Biblical mandate? I've heard preachers say you have to do this.

    How do each of you handle one coming to be saved?

    A biblical model:

    When Philip was used of the Lord to show the ethiopian eunuch the Scriptures, he exposited the Gospel, being the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ to him from Isaiah 53. Then the man saw water and requested to be baptized. Philip said "If you believe with all your heart you may." The eunuch said "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." He was saved this way with no sinners prayer whatsoever and with no evidence of asking Jesus to come into his heart. (I am aware that it is said this verse wasn't in early mss. I accept this verse as Gods Word personally)

    Is Philips biblical example a better model than our sinners prayer, and this "you must ask Jesus into your heart" model?
     
    #1 preacher4truth, Dec 30, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2010
  2. Old Union Brother

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    We do not require a so called "sinners prayer". We typically ask the canidate to tell the church what God has done for them. A typical reponse is "I've been praying on account of my sins and I feel that God has forgiven me and I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God". I'm not saying that every canidate says the same thing but something similar.

    I believe that a biblical model is the one that we should use rather than "repeat after after me." BTW I have never heard the phrase "repeat after me" said in the church I attend.
     
  3. preacher4truth

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    Good for your church.

    :applause:
     
  4. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    The year is 1947 and I am nine years old. During a Sunday morning service, the Holy Spirit began to illuminate my mind, convict my heart of sin and draw me to the Lord Jesus Christ.

    I didn't know at the time that that was going on. I knew only that all those sermons on Hell, Jesus death on the cross for sinners, and calls to repentance suddenly were aimed at me. Scared me to death.

    I headed down the aisle in tears. My pastor asked why I was coming. I wanted to be saved, I said.

    Do you understand that you are a sinner? Yes
    Are you sorry for your sins? Yes
    Do you trust Jesus Christ and Him alone to save you? Yes
    Sit down over there.

    No sinner's prayer. No Roman Road. Basically, do you repent and do you believe?

    I do believe that God will save one who calls out to him and asks for mercy. Further, if you are convinced that telling someone to pray for salvation is a valid witnessing tool, then when that time comes, you should tell him to ask God for salvation and then SHUT UP.

    A preacher told me once that sometimes these folks don't know exactly what to pray, so he helps them to form the words (pray something like this). I suggest that if he needs this kind of help, you have not laid the proper groundwork. You have not explained the scriptures well enough.

    Regardless of what I think, the scriptures provide us with enough guidance as to how to call men and women to Christ.

    Peter told the listeners on the day of Pentecost "repent."
    Paul told the listeners on Mars Hill "repent." (And some believed)
    Philip told the eunuch "believe.
    Paul said "confess Christ as Lord."
    Jesus preached "except you repent, you'll likewise perish."
    John the Baptist preached "repent."
    Peter, in Acts 3:19 told the Jews to "repent and be converted." In Acts 4:4 Luke wrote "howbeit some of them which heard the word believed." (About 5,000)

    Nowhere do we find the evangelists telling listeners to "Pray this prayer."

    Do any of you really want to hear from anybody that his hope of heaven is "I said the prayer."
     
  5. Tom Butler

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    I'm sure somebody is about to throw this scripture out as the justification for asking people to "walk the aisle," "come to the altar," "step out on faith."

    Matthew 10:32 "Everyone, therefore who shall confess me before men, him I will also confess before my Father in heaven."

    The argument is that a profession of faith should be made publicly, so this is the way you do it--by coming to the front.

    No.

    The way you do it is by being baptized. That is your public profession, your confessing before men.
     
    #5 Tom Butler, Dec 30, 2010
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  6. Tom Butler

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    I anticipate that an advocate of the Sinner's Prayer is about to bring up Romans 10:13 as the scriptural justification.

    "For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

    See, Paul said call on the name of the Lord. Isn't that praying for salvation?

    Well, does it? I think it's interesting that Paul did not say "whoever calls on the Lord will be said." What he said was "whoever calls on the NAME of the Lord will be saved. I suggest that there is a difference.

    Now, let's go a step further.

    Verse 14: "How, then, shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?".....

    Wait a minute. These people whom Paul has told to call on the name of the Lord have already believed. The answer to Paul's question demands the answer, you can't call on the name of the Lord unless you have believed.

    The name of the Lord is Messiah, the Christ.

    Remember, Chapter 10 is about Paul's desire for Israel to be saved. He is saying that anyone who confesses Christ as Lord Messiah, Jew or Gentile, will be saved.

    These passages can use some more exegesis, and I don't feel qualified to do it. My point is, that one cannot appeal to Romans 10:13 as a proof text for the Sinner's Prayer.
     
  7. quantumfaith

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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  8. InTheLight

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    I can't participate in the poll, the choices are rigged to get a desired outcome.

    True, the sinner's prayer is not found in the Bible. Phillip's methodology is the probably the best model we have. However, there is Romans 10:9-10:

    9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    This does require the sinner to say something--confessing of sins, saying he believes Jesus is the son of God, believing in His resurrection--in order to be made righteous in God's eyes and be saved. (Of course people incapable of speech would have to think these things.) So I think there is a place for a sinner's prayer using these verses as a model. However, I agree it can lead to easy-believeism.

    Interesting you bring that up because I attended a Calvinistic Baptist church for a while and the pastor would occasionally ask THE ENTIRE CONGREGATION to pray the sinner's prayer. I thought that was the strangest thing.
     
  9. Tom Butler

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    The eunuch's response to Philip's reading and explanation of Isaiah 53 is consistent with Romans 10:9. He confessed aloud that Jesus is the Son of God. He confessed aloud his faith.
     
  10. preacher4truth

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    Of course they're rigged. They came from me, and I desired a certain outcome from them. :)

    What questions would you have asked in a 100 word limit per question poll, to rig it your way? :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #10 preacher4truth, Dec 30, 2010
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  11. walkbyfaith

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    I believe that verse is calling for a confession of faith, not of sins.

    By your reasoning, if a person were to truly believe but does not confess of sins aloud (but to himself) God wont save him?

    1Ch 28:9 "And you, Solomon my son, know the God of your father and serve him with a whole heart and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches all hearts and understands every plan and thought. If you seek him, he will be found by you, but if you forsake him, he will cast you off forever.

    He knows, nothing need be said aloud for salvation. The confession of faith comes by witnessing, by preaching the gospel, by works of the Spirit.....all after salvation.

    If confession of sin had to be made for salvation, that would be salvation by works.

    Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
     
  12. InTheLight

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    I think you're right, given verse 9, "confess with the mouth the Lord Jesus"

    No, but we need to confess our sins to receive forgiveness, and thus be considered righteous in God's eyes.

    If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

    Isn't being forgiven a necessary component of salvation?
     
  13. preacher4truth

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    1 John 1:9 is written to the already saved. A group of believers. You misapply it here.
     
  14. walkbyfaith

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    Without doubt, forgiveness is a huge part of salvation.

    But, do we confess individual sins or confess that we are sinners? He already knows our sins.

    I do believe we need to recognize and confess our sinful nature, to confess that we are sinners and cannot save ourselves. A confession of individual sins, that He already knows, is not needed for salvation.
     
    #14 walkbyfaith, Dec 30, 2010
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  15. preacher4truth

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    Yes. The confession of individual sins is part of the daily walk, or should be.
     
  16. walkbyfaith

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    Is not needed for salvation I should have said
     
  17. MB

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    IMHO those who resent this public confession are the ones with the problem.
    Paul wrote;
    Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

    Is the reason you are against public confession, because you are ashamed?
    You don't question the jailer came forward to paul after hearing him preach to the prisioners do you?
    Pastors give an opportunity for those like the Jailer who want to be saved but don't know how to proceed. And you are against it. Not to mention you don't believe it's scriptural.
    Your not alone in your objection to prayer, our adversary is also in objection to it. The first thing a Christian needs to know is PRAYER.
    I'm beginning to wonder. Have you ever prayed before?
    I've heard hundreds of preachers give a benidiction and not one of them ever said we have to do this.

    Again you missed it in act 16. You don't know they didn't pray together. You're just trying to make fun of prayer and public confession.
    MB
     
    #17 MB, Dec 30, 2010
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  18. preacher4truth

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    I appreciate you calling my salvation into question on this thread.
     
    #18 preacher4truth, Dec 30, 2010
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  19. walkbyfaith

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    Originally Posted by MB

    Your not alone in your objection to prayer, our adversary is also in objection to it. The first thing a Christian needs to know is PRAYER.

    I'm beginning to wonder. Have you ever prayed before?


    MB,

    I saw nowhere preacher said he objected to prayer. He simply asked why some think a prayer can save them.

    Seems to me you are attacking this man unjustly.
     
  20. InTheLight

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    I agree with you.
     

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