Why do we ordain?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by John Toppass, Apr 13, 2010.

  1. John Toppass

    John Toppass
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    In order not to hijack another thread, I would like to ask BB members what is the reasoning behind ordination. Who should or can be ordained. And last but not least, how do ordinations differ? (Pastor, elder, deacon, minister) If they do differ.

    I think we may be surprised by how much we agree yet how much we differ.
     
  2. Revmitchell

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    Tit 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
    Tit 1:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
    Tit 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
    Tit 1:8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
    Tit 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
     
  3. Tom Bryant

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    Rev (by the way, welcome back, you were missed) has given the Biblical reason which is enough for us to lay hands on someone.

    But there is a practical reason. It is that an accepted group, like various other ordained people, have examined a person and believe he is called to the ministry, is acceptable in terms of his doctrine and is a person of good reputation. Obviously, this step is only as good as the ones doing the questioning and the ordaining. But I think it is also a good step of protection for the church at large that a man was examined and found acceptable to others.
     
  4. Tom Butler

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    Mark 3:14: "And he [Jesus] ordained the twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach."

    When a church ordains someone today, it is in essence placing its stamp of approval on his conversion, his call and his fitness for the office. It declares that the ordaining church has examined him and found him to be orthodox in doctrine and ecclesiology.

    I don't know what form that ordination took, but it's stated purpose is that Jesus might send them forth to preach. A possible clue might be found in Acts 13:3, where it's recorded that the church (or the prophets and teachers mentioned in verse 1) laid hands on Saul and Barnabas and sent them away on the first missionary journey.

    Saul and Barnabas' call came from the Holy Spirit, and the church's action appears to be an act of obedience or an acknowlegement of the Spirit's call.
     
  5. Jim1999

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    The only person to be ordained is the pastor of the local church, and by that local church. It is acnowledging the call and suitability for ministry.

    Secondly, to-day, it is a legal act affecting the act of marriage. In Canada, the licence to perform weddings, is issued by provincial governments, to people approved by their denomination.

    Ordination is not a requirement to minister, or preach the word, or to perform the duties of a pastor. Charles Spurgeon, for one, was never ordained. He was Mr. Spurgeon his entire life. The true Plymouth Brethren, do not have an ordained ministry.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  6. Bob Alkire

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    So true, I believe that H. A. Ironside wasn't ordained as well.
     
  7. Revmitchell

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    Having trusted men of the past not ordained is not authority to fail to do so or have someone hold office who is not.
     
  8. gb93433

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    Leadership should have already been proven to a certain degree before being a pastor.
     
  9. Revmitchell

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    Thanks..................
     
  10. nodak

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    I believe when properly done it is simply the church recognizing how God is using someone. Papers or not, a leader leads. (Not pushes, not hides behind the front line, but leads.)

    My only complaint is that in some circles today ordination happens just because someone completes a prescribed course of study. They need that piece of paper in order to secure their career......sort of like a teacher's license, or license to practice medicine.

    I support it as a voucher that this person is being used of God in thus and so manner.

    I disapprove of giving it to someone, untested, unproven, but just with right letters after his name.

    I do not disapprove of an educated pastor.....just saying education doesn't make him a pastor.

    I also do not believe that ordination makes the person a special class Christian or confers ANY authority over my soul to that person. That place is reserved for God.

    So in a nutshell, I believe ONLY GOD ordains. We are called only to recognize that. But sometimes we get the silly idea we confer special powers on those WE ordain.

    So I don't believe WE should ordain anyone at all. We should, however, recognize those God has ordained.......like Spurgeon, if I recall my history correctly, Moody, etc. Not ordained by man, but clearly ordained by God.
     
  11. Bob Alkire

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    I'm in accord with you!
     
  12. Revmitchell

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    And you have to completely ignore scripture for purely man made reasons like you did in this post to believe that.
     
  13. Bob Alkire

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    I'm sure nodak can and will speak for their self, but I'll add my view of why I agreed.

    I've seen of the group I was ordained with, that it is very likely many were not ordained of God, even four of them deny that there is a God today.

    I'm not against a church ordaining someone, just be sure they were ordained by God first. Some of the pastors that have been of great help to me over the years were never ordained by men, but I have no doubt that they were ordained by God. And yes others were ordained.
     
  14. Revmitchell

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    Ordination by the church and ordination by God are one and the same as it is a clear command from scripture.
     
  15. John Toppass

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    Wow, lot more response than I expected and civil too.
    We ordain our pastors, elders, pastor/elders. We also ordain deacons as well. Many ministers, not ordained, marry folks just with the license given them by a church.
    Must all who are ordained meet with the guidelines in Titus & Timothy?
    Do we only ordain those who will hold a office or position in the church? How about those who may not qualify as a Pastor, but they serve and preach whether it is filling the pulpit on occasion or evangelism or another ministry.
    Do we only ordain men? Do all ordinations give license to "marry and bury"?
    When, if at all does a church ask or rescind ordination. (Can they do this?)
    If one has been ordained as a deacon, should they be ordained again for a different office or position?

    I am interested in your thoughts and keep it civil like it has been up to now.
     
    #15 John Toppass, Apr 14, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 14, 2010
  16. Revmitchell

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    This is a misuse of that license.

    Only if you want to follow scriptural guidelines.

    A license is a recognition of a call to preach but not recognition of a call to Pastor. In many cases the license comes early on and the Ordination comes at the first call to a church.

    Only if you want to follow scriptural guidelines.

    Yes

    They can but it is rare.
     
  17. Bob Alkire

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    It should be, but I have my doubts of some. When some are now open atheist. I believe God gets it right every time, man does not always .
     
  18. Dr. Bob

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    As the Bible commands (no options here) the elders were to be ordained.

    Today, some get around any REAL purpose of ordination. They make it a little ceremony of anybody the managawd running the church wants to ordain. Some ifb'ers actually just tuck the ordination slip in with the diploma from their so-called colleges. Mockery of ordination.

    ORDINATION IS FOR PROTECTION OF THE CHURCH. As Paul told Titus, examine men and appoint them as elders. 2:5

    What was to be examined?
    • Character/conduct first of all! 2:6-8
    • Extensive education to combat deep theological error 2:9-10
    • Able to maintain orderly conduct/programs in the church 2:11-13
    • Not making up/living by man-made rules 2:14
    • Capable of public exhortation/teaching doctrine 3:1

    When a local church calls a council of ordained men, they will spend hard hours ascertaining whether the candidate follows these guidelines. We don't have an apostle to do this for us (as did Paul and Titus and Timothy) so to avoid error or myopia, a council gives group wisdom.

    Not perfect. We had a missionary ordained that was called back to the church and confronted over heresy (he became part of the "only" bunch) and we withdrew his ordination. Sadly, people change and people lie, even at an ordination council.
     
  19. Revmitchell

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    That doesn't need to lead to no ordination or to just ignore ordination and simply say "well he is called by God that is good enough". It has a purpose and we should be concerned with how we conduct ourselves rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water and disobeying God because others misuse it or just plain get it wrong.
     
  20. Tom Bryant

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    Good stuff! Part of the problem we have in church ministry today is because we have ordained some very wrong people.
     

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