Why Do You Submit to the People Who Rule You?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by poncho, Aug 10, 2009.

  1. poncho

    poncho
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    Posted by Karen De Coster on August 7, 2009 07:24 AM

    These are the people who rule you, and they are carrying out their “donor maintenance.” Political donors are the people who buy politicians so they can have a piece of your pie redistributed to them through the application of a cascade of unconstitutional decrees.
    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi moves in a rarefied world of high society and high-level politics — and nothing underscores that fact quite like her plans for the August recess.

    Pelosi will spend next weekend quietly tending to top party donors and political allies at a series of private events in Northern California.

    The two-day “issues conference” starts next Friday night with a dinner for roughly 170 guests on the back lawn of Pelosi’s multimillion-dollar home in the fashionable Pacific Heights neighborhood in San Francisco.

    The following day, Pelosi will shepherd her guests to a Napa Valley winery with buildings designed by world-famous architect Frank Gehry; the speaker and her husband, investor Paul Pelosi, own a nearby vineyard worth between $5 million and $25 million, according to her annual financial disclosure report.

    …To be invited, one must have raised money for the DCCC, been a longtime friend of Pelosi’s or contributed $30,4000 to the DCCC this cycle. The maximum an individual may give to a national party committee in any one year.

    A donation to the DCCC of that size qualifies a donor to be part of the “Speaker’s Cabinet,” a fundraising program that gives supporters expanded access to Pelosi.
    Nancy Pelosi, a multi-millionaire, is destroying your life and freedom through her control of the governing body that lords it over all of us. Powerful and wealthy people are not buying access to this wrinkled, old hag because they like her or the Democrats. They do so because they get special favors and access to the redistribution booty at the expense of you, the middle-class wage earner or entrepreneur. Politics is coercion, and still, no matter how much people learn about the establishment and its reason for existence, they sanction it. They sanction it each time they concede to the government’s arbitrary decrees and go along with its mandates. And especially, the masses consent to total control and tyranny each time they vote for any one of these swines.

    When the economy tanks and inflation runs rampant, forcing Mom and Pop into food lines and unemployment lines, begging for tidbits, Mrs. Pelosi will be comfortably ensconced behind the walls of her California mansion, complete with servants, crystal, and fine wine. When Mr. and Mrs. Middle Class are lying in an overcrowded, musty, appalling medical clinic somewhere, being ignored for days under a socialized health care plan, Mrs. Pelosi will have private and immediate access to the best doctors and best hospitals in the world.

    These monsters, who have been given extraordinary powers to rule over you, have become so used to ramping up their powers and stomping their legislative jack boots down on your head, that they are not the slightest bit tolerant of resistance. They loathe your disobedience, your verbal challenges, your hostility to their supremacy.

    Full Article.
     
  2. saturneptune

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    The simple answer to the op is that the Bible tells us to, that they are there because the Lord ordained they be there. That is what Jesus told Pilate. What I cannot understand is why we keep returning to office the same tired, old, choice of the two parties that are now in power, knowing before one lever is pushed that whoever gets in office is going to steal from us and expand government over our lives.
     
  3. Johnv

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    Why Do You Submit to the People Who Rule You?
    Because that's what the Bible instructs. We might disagree with them and voice that disagreement, but we still submit to them as God commands.
     
  4. ktn4eg

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    Correct!

    And let's not forget that "the powers that be" when Paul wrote that was the Roman Empire--the same godless government that put many Christians to death.
     
  5. Revmitchell

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    apples and refrigerators


    Two different governments with two different ways of doing things.
     
  6. windcatcher

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    The whole election process is smoke and mirrors.....at least after you get past the local elections. But it is at the local level that the graft or the constitutional rule begins.... and it is at that level that the character of people for future office is groomed in experience and their values and intergrity is either exercised or broken. The machines which counts the votes control the outcomes..... both the party monies which promote advertising and the machines/computers which programming is kept secret an is accepted without random checks built into the system to check on their accurracy.

    Wrong answer. The people who God ordains..... rule for good. God also pronouces judgement..... and rulers may be the evil arm against the people when they arise from the disobediance of the people. We have failed to vigorously exercise our rights and our duty to keep our government in line.

    We fail to realize and recognize the unique set up of our constitutional government. We are it. God gave it to us and to the world.... a unique form of government dependant on common law governing the behavior of people, dependant on the morality of people to recognize, accept, and perform their own responsibility.

    The Declaration of Independance gave us our purpose and mandate...... the game plan, if you will, for the proper relationship of man and government IN OUR COUNTRY. It recognized our Creator as our sovereign authority....... and our liberties as rights which flow from him and his gift to us.

    To help us maintain and keep that liberty, we were given the Constitution, a document of 'negative' law (as some now like to assert) because it doesn't tell the citizen what he must or must not do...... it tells the government what it cannot do... establishes the purpose and framework of government....... and gives us the responsibility to enforce it.

    The constitution is the ordinance of our government. The rule is us. We have subjected ourselves to the rule of others, bit by bit, against the ordination of God, who gave our forefathers the faith and wisdom to establish this country as no other. Bit by bit...... we've lost our compass and failed to maintain the foundations of our faith, trusting in the benevolence of man rather than the provisions of God ...... and enticed by our own greed and lust.

    The rule we currently have is not the ordained government that God gave us.... it is far from it..... and if anyone wants to justify it..... let it be said.... what we have now is the consequence and judgement of our own failure to follow God instead of man.

    While we've opened our doors to immigrants, some of whom come here for the benefits without the understanding or appreciation for our origins and blessings...... we, who know better, have also yielded and comproimised against the principals of good stewardship to be enticed and adopt the 'diversities' of other cultures.
     
  7. windcatcher

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    Another way of looking at this:

    Yes...... we are to submit to the authorities God places over us.

    But our government is establish by 'we the people' and from that we have OUR authority, subjecting ourselves to no man but to God.

    Our 'government' is us..... not the people we elect...... but our attitude directs how we relate to 'them' and how we face our own responsibility.

    Our forefathers, being well studied in history, philosophy, law, and religion, established the blueprint for each person bearing responsibility for his own choices without coercion, and without establishing 'a ruling class'. They recognized the falability of man and corruption inherant in each of us... and saw that corruption, if concentrated in powers and government, as a blight to our free will, a bondage, and a poor and evil replacement for God.

    We are like the young Israel nation..... who rejected the rule God gave her.... and those who were the ministers of His instruction..... and wanted a king.
     
  8. Johnv

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    I know I'm gonna get smacked for this, but here goes...

    God did not give us a government. God gave us the ability to govern ourselves. We elect people to do that task for us. If they do it in a manner which we oppose, then it is our responsibility, and our fault, because we chose them.

    The bottom line is, scripture commands us to submit to those who rule. We can certainly disagree with them and voice that disagreement, but we are still required to submit to them as God commands.
     
  9. windcatcher

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    I don't agree with you in all this as I believe that government which strays from the document which restrains it.... isn't governing lawfully and what is unlawful we are not obligated to follow.... only in the areas of its lawful authority do we submit.

    However, we cannot 'govern ourselves' and at the same time be 'governed'. We cannot serve two masters.

    The sad thing is...... we have failed to recognize and to maintain our governance and keep our elected officials in the positions of servants for our good. We've neglected to discharge our duties..... and most of it is through ignorance. What we should have been learning in schools about our government, our world, our skills and abilities to respond to the challenges of life.... has not been taught in our schools. Our government was built upon the premise that the people would follow a moral compass supported by their faith or religion. If it is impossible for people to follow..... it is even harder for governments to follow. Concentration of power in a few..... leads to less not more morality.
     
  10. poncho

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    You're missing the point of the OP John. We are not ruled by our servants. As in public servants notice I didn't say public masters or public rulers?

    That's because we do not go to the polls and elect public rulers. We elect public servants. But our servants have betrayed us and are stealing from us.

    We are their rightful masters but they serve us not. They serve special interests who pay them to steal from us. What does God say about servants who steal from their masters? What does God say about servants who betray their masters?

    The point of the OP is that we are ruled by special interests who do not hold political office. They are not part of our government. They are nothing but parasites draining away our blood and treasure by stealth and deceit in order to satisfy their own hunger for wealth, power and control.
     
    #10 poncho, Aug 11, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2009
  11. Tom Bryant

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    So what are you saying, Poncho?
     
  12. poncho

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    Same thing I've been saying for four or five years now. What are you hearing Tom?
     
  13. Tom Bryant

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    You should be a politician. I am not trying to put anything into your mouth. Are you saying that we should not submit to the government of the US?
     
  14. poncho

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    No, I'm saying that the government of the United States no longer exists.

    Do you see a constitutionally limited government around here anywhere?

    I also asked a couple questions. Can you answer them?

    But before you do please keep in mind we elect public servants in the USA, not public rulers. The government of the United States was formed on the principle that the people were the masters of their government not the other way around. In this country "we the people" are the higher authority not those we choose to serve us.

    What does God say about servants who steal from their masters?

    What does God say about servants who betray their masters?
     
    #14 poncho, Aug 11, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2009
  15. Tom Bryant

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    What i am hearing is all sorts of fine arguments for not obeying the commands of the Bible to submit ourselves to the powers that are in control.

    I don't think the Bible says we are supposed to obey only constitutionally limited gov't.

    The roman gov't was not any kind of limited gov't. The Bible doesn't say that the gov't is our servant.

    I think you're rationalizing your own political beliefs. But I won't answer for you.
     
  16. poncho

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    Now you're the one playing the politician. I didn't ask for your opinion Tom. I asked you a couple questions that you didn't answer.

    Maybe you'll answer me this, I doubt it but I'll ask anyway.

    If Paul was saying "be subject to a secular government" and "Rome is not a terror to good works, but to the evil". And "the Roman centurion does not swing his sword in vain therefore, do good and you shall have praise of the same."

    Why was Paul beheaded by a Roman centurian? If he was preaching be subject to Rome like you seem to be claiming, what cause would Caesar have to kill one of his best propagandists?

    If the Roman centurian (who doesn't swing his sword in vain) killed Paul . . . then was Paul an evildoer?
     
    #16 poncho, Aug 11, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2009
  17. Carico

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    True Christians don't belong to the world. Paul wasn't concerned about politics any more than Jesus was. The Roman government that ruled at the time was of no concern to the disciples or to Jesus. They simply rendered unto Caesar what was Caesar's and paid taxes that were undoubtedly spent in corrupt ways.
     
  18. poncho

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    Let's just take one thing at a time okay. We can come back to this later. I asked Tom some questions about Paul. He probably won't bother to answer but you can if you'd like. Here they are again.

    If Paul was saying "be subject to a secular government" and "Rome is not a terror to good works, but to the evil". And "the Roman centurion does not swing his sword in vain therefore, do good and you shall have praise of the same."

    Why was Paul beheaded by a Roman centurian? If he was preaching be subject to Rome like you seem to be claiming, what cause would Caesar have to kill one of his best propagandists?

    If the Roman centurian (who doesn't swing his sword in vain) killed Paul . . . then was Paul an evildoer?
     
  19. Carico

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    First of all, we don't know how and why Paul was killed. We can only speculate.

    Secondly, Pontius Pilate ordered Jesus to be killed because the Jews wanted him killed. The Roman government didn't care about Christ's teaching. Followers of Christ were upsetting the Jews and blamed for creating a disturbance. This was true in every area where Paul and the apostles preached. The emperors of Rome also did not understand who Jesus was and were threatened by his followers. That has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Paul and the apostles weren't interested in politics.
     
  20. Bro. Curtis

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    The Jews got Christ killed by claiming he was violating Roman law.
     

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