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Featured Why does Calvinism vs. Armianism dominate every thread?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by evangelist6589, May 18, 2014.

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  1. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    sounds like a plan.
     
  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I agree. That is why I believe "freedom" is an illusion, so I can't accept compatibilism as you defined it.
    Paul says men are slaves to sin several times in Romans. (6:6,17,20 etc.)
    So, you are saying because the jailer wasn't "regenerated" yet, he hadn't expressed faith in Christ, that disproves compatibilism (and the sin nature theology) because he was seeking God prior to regeneration?

    This just shows the jailer was under conviction of the Holy Spirit... the "drawing" if you will. Such intervention by God must take place prior to faith, imho.
     
  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    You can never enjoy pub fellowship tooo much. There, people are real.
     
  4. Inspector Javert

    Inspector Javert Active Member

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    Well...people WILL actually change. You and I both know that.
    There are definitely folks from an Arminian prospective who have essentially "Gone Cal"...and (to your credit I admit) none whom I know of who went from Cal to Arminian...

    That doesn't bother me....

    If the Scriptures are truly on your side as you explain them...then let the debate flow...God's Word is what we want to hear. And if you Calvies have a better explanation than us Arms...so be it...let the best man win :thumbs:
     
    #64 Inspector Javert, May 19, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2014
  5. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Walls addresses this view in that video. You would probably not appreciate what he says, he says Calvinists tend to "punt" and defer to "mystery" whenever they are confronted with contradictions in their doctrine.

    I agree with him :rolleyes:

    God calls men, but many refuse to come.

    Mat 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
    3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

    Jesus said he would draw all men to him.

    Mat 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

    Jesus knew from the beginning who would believe not. Therefore he also knew from the beginning who would believe. The sheep are those that hear his voice and he knows them.

    Jhn 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

    Jhn 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

    Note that Jesus knows them AFTER they hear his voice.

    Jhn 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

    Again, note what Jesus says about his sheep, "and they shall hear my voice". Jesus's sheep are those persons in his foreknowledge whom he knew would listen to him and believe his words.

    He doesn't know him because they never heard his voice (believed).

    Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    These facts are not so difficult to reconcile after all are they?
     
  6. Inspector Javert

    Inspector Javert Active Member

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    Yes you can...once you say that you can't enjoy it "tooo" much....

    Then, you've enjoyed it "too much".

    I like a good brew as much as the next guy...I like to sit in a pub and talk Theology as much as the next guy....

    I do that as well, and I do it with a Brew or a fine wine as much as the next guy...

    But, when I lose my faculties, I've lost my faculties....and that is a sin. That does not honor Christ.
    We must be careful sir.
     
  7. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    You shouldn't be so quick to judge motives. A little while back, Iconoclast and I were debating an issue, and I sort of demanded that he refrain from posting links, and simply present his case for himself. He thought the same, that I simply wanted to pounce on any shortcomings in verbiage, to sort of "win the day"

    I assured him that was not the case, and we started a good, honest exchange.

    My motive was simply that we are called to be ready to give an answer, not be ready to point to someone else's answer. What if i disagreed with the content in the link? Who should I argue against? The one who wrote the content, or the one who posted it?

    In addition, what if he understood the linked argument differently from me? Then we're arguing apples and oranges.

    I'd like to think that Icon and I developed a little more respect for each other through that exchange, idea for idea.

    It didn't get resolved, because of the previously mentioned swift-handed mod, but it was good while it lasted.

    And it started with Icon taking a risk that I was being honest with my motive. And that meant a lot to me
     
  8. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    It's all smoke. Count the views, the Cal/Arm debates get more views than all other topics easy. The only thing that competes are threads about drinking alcohol. If you think the Cal/Arm debates are boring...
     
  9. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    :smilewinkgrin: Well, that is somewhat true. There is much mystery concerning these issues.

    I think both sides are at midfield and do more punting than scoring.

    Although I greatly appreciate your answering in detail, I know it will take me a while to address everything you have written...

    ...and it is past my bed-time.

    I'll look at it again tomorrow.

    Thanks again for the civil discussion.
     
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Inspector Javert


    People grow and change agreed:thumbs: Sometimes it takes a long time.Many cannot frame out the issues clearly or have sat under someone who presented strawman caricatures and it clouded their understanding.

    I simply believe the biblical teaching is Cal...as you might have guessed by now;) I do not often attempt to urge anyone to switch "camps" so to speak.
    I attempt to react to what is posted and match it to a biblical framework, using the word of God as Amos spoke of a plumbline.
    When I see posting from a sincere poster who varies from scripture....I offer it. If they search it out I believe the Spirit of God will grant repentance from less biblical ideas....to more firmly rooted teaching 2tim 2:24-26.

    It is God's truth we should all be mindful to seek out....to please Him....not to "win" a BB posting fight:thumbs:

    I am very simpleminded in this and will post helpful links which some will ridicule.The links are good and full of correct scripture passages. The results good or bad are between that person and God-
    27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven

    well IJ it should not bother any of us if we remain focused on edifying one another....When the attacks come and we bite and devour one another...no edification takes place, and God the Holy Spirit is grieved.
    We can all fight and oppose God and His revealed word....but we both know that is fruitless at best and sinful quite often.


    I believe with proper study and good healthy interaction each believer can come away stronger.
    I used to be a lot more contentious and careless , but getting a bit older I have lived to see that someone who hardens themself from scripture comes under harsh discipline if they are God's child...one man put it this way;

    The harder the stone, the harder the blows of the hammer to break that stone.

    I do not want to be in that spot:thumbs:
     
  11. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Oooooh, this is the perfect spot to insert the Evil Calvinism photo I found online.

    [​IMG]

    Thanks EW& F:thumbs:
     
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    speak for yourself...... I am always in control.
     
  13. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Yes james that was a good interaction and you accurately recounted it. As an aside....I type slower than a moose makes droppings in the woods....so if I post a link that you disagree with....I will defend the link in my own words if necessary...maybe not as well as the person I quote, but I look to post links that express what I understand clearer than I could.
     
  14. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    I'm not talking about how many page views. I'm sure at least half the page views are nothing more than people looking at their own posts so they can pat themselves on the back. :laugh:

    I'm talking about the original question about why every thread here gets turned into a Cal/Arm debate

    It's because the proper forum has been run desolate by a heavy-handed approach.

    The arguments will go on, for sure. But it doesn't have to be in this section. They made a section for those who have no self control and run around after competing unbiblical philosophies.

    It's probably not by accident that they put that section near the bottom of the page. That way, people who want to be in the basement can just scroll down to it.
     
  15. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Seems like I should know this guy....
     
  16. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    I call this one "Arminian runs off Calvinist with cross" :laugh:

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Inspector Javert

    Inspector Javert Active Member

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  18. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    I will say this about Icon, he is one of the few consistent Calvinists here.

    Icon is a good ol' A. W. Pink kind of Calvinist. He doesn't even pretend that God loves everyone and wants to save all men.
     
  19. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    I actually agree with Brother Iconoclast's post....
     
  20. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    As much as folks say they hate Cal/Arm debates, people keep starting new threads on the subject.

    Yes, the Mod in the proper forum shuts 'em down quick. I don't completely blame him, they all go south quick. Why waste time when you can save it?

    Nevertheless, Cal/Arm debates get more views than all other topics easy.

    Nobody will believe this, but I get sick of debate many times. If I didn't think it was important, I would drop it.

    It is actually guys like Evan (John) that motivates me to keep fighting Calvinism, he believes everything John MacArthur tells him. He's a good guy, I can't just sit back and let his mind be turned to mush.
     
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