Why does God require holiness?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Salamander, Jun 6, 2006.

  1. Salamander

    Salamander
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    I see much of Christian behaviour departing form holiness.

    Why is it that the majority doesn't seem to think holiness is important anymore?
     
  2. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Many have a poor view of:

    The exceeding holiness of God
    The exceeding sinfulness of the flesh

    Without those two things sin and holiness are not a "big deal"

    Of course much of this depends on how one defines holiness
     
  3. 2BHizown

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    Holiness

    Without holiness no man shall see the Lord!
    Much of what we see today by those who call themselves 'christian' could hardly be labeled 'holiness'!

    If you were arrested for being a christian would there be enough evidence to convict you?
     
  4. doulous

    doulous
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    One word answer: sin.
     
  5. Salamander

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    So, then sin is what prevents holiness, but then isn't sin an act of the will?

    To define holiness on the behalf of the Lord, we must see the fact that God is Holy in the respect that He is independent of His Creation and transcendent concerning any law as to have authority over God.

    On the behalf of the man, specifically the child of God, one is commanded to be holy as He is Holy. Not that any man could be as holy as God, but that man is to strive to become as separate from sin and the activities that tempt a man to even think upon sin, as God Himself is holy and separate from sin.

    To introduce that "questionable" activities can and will tempt a man to sin, isn't it then considered fopr that man to be holy as God has commanded to abstain from those specific activities?

    An example would be something as the exposing of the flesh that will tempt a man to lust?

    Lust is still sin isn't it?
     
  6. IveyLeaguer

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    Because the majority are being taught that God exists to meet their felt needs.

    Which is what they want to hear.
     
  7. Salamander

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    Are you then saying when they hear God "doesn't care" what the outward appearance is, that is what people want to hear, but that exposing certain areas of the body does excite the lusts, but people don't want to hear it?

    Is exposing the body in, say, a swimsuit, an evening gown revealing the shoulders, a lowcut shirt or blouse, considerd to still be holy as he is holy?
     
  8. DorthyMontine

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    1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.


    That's why.

    God is holy. If he is our Father, then should not we His children be holy too.
     
  9. IveyLeaguer

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    Are you asking me, Salamander?
     
  10. DorthyMontine

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    Salamander...

    Do you really want to know? Ask God for wisdom in that. He loves to give wisdom to all who seek it.
     
  11. 2BHizown

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    holiness

    God is holy. We are sinful. Sin cannot be in the presence of God.
    Therefore, when we come to Christ in faith as given by Him our sin has been placed on Him and in return the righteousness of Christ was placed on us, making us fit to stand in God's presence.
    This is 'imputation' as described in 2Cor 5, especially v. 21

    This is the only way we can stand in the presence of God, if He has so prepared us for such!
     
  12. IveyLeaguer

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    Perhaps the question was not intended the way I took it. Nevertheless, holiness is so much more than what we wear, and holiness is not legalistic.

    But the premise of the question is true about today's church. And the answer is: holiness is not important anymore because it isn't being taught. Which begs the question, why isn't it being taught? Just FWIW.
     
  13. Salamander

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    I want to know why God's people don't care much for holy living anymore.

    All I'm trying to do is discuss the issue, but it seems more don't want to be exposed to holiness teaching anymoere and rather have the flesh.
     
  14. Salamander

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    I see people rather argue against little gnits and gnats but when it comes to discussing holiness they run and hide behing "Well, God is the only one who is holy and we are all sinners.":praying:
    I appreciate Ivey, your comment that holiness isn't legalism, so then the arguement that insisting the church to live holy and righteously before the lost world in all manner of conversation is NOT legalism either, but is rather HOLINESS.:praise: :Fish: :praise:
     
  15. 2BHizown

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    Holiness?

    No holiness?

    Why do you consider them "God's people"?
     
  16. Salamander

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    They consider themselves as God's people. That is specifically what I am trying to get across; they say, but does God say?

    They argue against godly standards calling it legalism, but doesn't that identify them as rebellious?:praying:
    Would you please discuss the question and yall stop trying to debate me? (cept Iveyleaguer):praise: :Fish: :praise:
     
  17. doulous

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    It is more than that. Sin is what we are born into. Man is born into sin. Man has a sin nature and he acts in accordance with that nature. Why does an owl hoot? Because it is in his nature to hoot. Why does a sheep go "baa"? Because it is in a sheeps nature to go "baa". Why does a politician lie? Because it is in the nature of politician to lie. :laugh: Seriously, man sins because it is in his nature to do so.
     
  18. Salamander

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    So then every man is born with the same nature, we know that.

    Man chooses to sin or not, that too is within his nature to make decisions. He also chooses to abstain from sinful activity whether he's saved or not.

    In regard to actual holiness, circumspect holiness, it is appearance and attitude combined for both converse to others what we really are inside and out.

    It's called balance.:praying:
     
  19. IveyLeaguer

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    I think I see what you're getting at, Salamander. Why, for instance, aren't we more like the Puritans as opposed to what we are in that regard?

    I agree with you that the recognition of legalism can be used by some to justify sin, and that is a horrible thing. But when I speak of legalism I mean the 'real McCoy'. It's necessary to mention that since so many consider holiness almost synonymous with legalism, and while holiness manifests itself both inside and outside, it is much more about the inside than it is the outside. With that in mind, here are some random thoughts:

    For almost 200 years now the Protestant churches in the western world have been under attack by the enemy primarily through a direct attack on God's Word. The main vehicle of this attack has been and still is what we generally refer to as 'liberal' thinking, that is, the idea that what God has said isn't right, He didn't mean it, and/or he didn't really say that at all. There are endless ways this is done, all kinds of complexities, from a man-centered interpretation of scripture to downright defiance. But the root cause behind it all, I believe, is that man wants what he wants, and wants to do what he wants to do, and does not want to do what God has commanded he must do. Sinful man loves sin, and human 'flesh' will always win out unless countered by a human spirit yielded to Jesus Christ.*

    Today the church, as a whole, is permeated by a humanistic gospel, the idea that human thoughts, works, and ideas are of great value, and much of the church doesn't take the Bible seriously anymore. This has been coming on for a long time, liberalism has been in control of the seminaries in the West for many generations now, and overall the Bible hasn't been rightly divided and taught. It has reached the point where a majority of the professed church is in apostasy or is primed for it.

    IMHO, there are two things that characterize the professed church of today. One, the fear of God has been lost (through starvation of scriptual truth) and two, the prosperity of western civilization, the United States in particular. Without the fear of God, we figure we can mostly do what we want with the idea that God will forgive us in the end anyway. That is to say, we can plan and live our lives to please ourselves without fear of God's judgment. With prosperity, there is no poverty out of which we must cry to God for His provision. For the most part, we look to what we possess, or to our own abilities, for solutions.

    Today, the teaching in the church is centered on God's love and God's blessing. There is little or no teaching, or preaching, on God's sin and God's judgment. I honestly believe you could wipe out most of America's megachurches in a month with 3 consecutive weeks of balanced, scriptural sermons on sin and judgment. Which is one of the reasons I fear the major movements in the church today are counterfeit.

    But the point is the same as in my post above. The reason holiness is not being practiced any more than it is is because it isn't being taught in the churches. The success of the church is more important today, and the last thing people want to hear is the truth about sin and judgment - people even ran from Jesus when He preached it. Lastly, the lust for success has virtually eliminated real Biblical discipling, rendering it superficial for the most part, along with church discipline. Even many sincere and balanced Bible-believing churches are failing to disciple and discipline believers.

    Holiness is a product of growth and becoming closer to God, thus more like God, and that takes individual dedication as well as good leadership from the church. The only way to holiness is through God's Son, and the way to the Son is through His Word. That's why the primary focus of attack has been on the Word of God. The forces of darkness will do anything to get a man or woman, saved or lost, to disbelieve the Word, whether one verse of it or all of it. Anything but believe what God says. To the extent the Word is lost, changed, disbelieved, or watered down, so is holiness.



    *Superficially, I suppose you'd have to say that in some cases the 'flesh' can be tamed through a yielding to a false christ or a false god, as in the 'purity' manifested by some Eastern religions or through other legalisms, devout Muslims for example. In reality, of course, only their 'outward flesh' is yielded and they possess nothing but darkness.
     
  20. LeBuick

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    @IveyLeaguer, Enjoyed your response. I would like for you to expound more on prosperity, what it has done to the Church and how the Church can co-exist in a prosprous world.

    Years ago there were no Fridge and man depended more on GOD for their daily bread. Most of us have stored enough food and money that we no longer feel that same dependance toward GOD as a provider. I believe that dependency on GOD lead to a closer walk with GOD. A closer walk makes a more perfected and obedient christian. Thoughts?
     

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