Why does John 1:2 say Jesus is God?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Rev. Autrey, Aug 11, 2014.

  1. Rev. Autrey

    Rev. Autrey
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    Why does John I:2 say that Jesus is God?

    In saying that the WORD (Jesus) was God, John was not operating in a vacuum. John was referring to Isaiah 45:15-17 that says, "Truly, O God of Israel, you work in strange ways. ... But Israel shall be saved by the Lord God with eternal salvation. They shall never be disappointed in their God through all eternity." This is a promise by God himself to come to the earth and save his people. But we see Jesus coming to save his people. This simply means that the Lord God and Jesus are one and the same.

    The problem comes when we forget that God has more than one personality. He directs his affairs through his personality, The Father. He inspires us to believe through his personality, the Holy Spirit. But he always speaks to through his personality Jesus.

    In other words, there is only one God. But this one God has three distinct personalities, or self identities. We call them persons. This is no problem for God, because no matter which personality or self identity he speaks through he is still the same God. An old Baptist hynm says it best: "Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty, God in three persons, blessed Trinity."

    So when God (Immanuel, God is with us) came to earth, he spoke to us as Jesus!

    Please respond if you disagree! Or respond if you agree!
     
  2. sag38

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    God did not speak as Jesus. Jesus is not just a personality of God. Rather He is a distinct individual. Jesus spoke as Jesus. He is God but He is not God the Father nor God the Holy Spirit. In the same way God the Father is God but He is not Jesus. A personality did not die on the cross. The Father did not forsake a personality. The God man, fully God and yet fully human, died on that cross and arose from the grave. Can I explain this logically as modalism attempts to do in error? No, I cannot not. Although my finite mind cannot understand this I accept it because this is what is clearly demonstrated in the scripture.
     
  3. kyredneck

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    ?????

    No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. Jn 1:18

    God, having of old time spoken unto the fathers in the prophets by divers portions and in divers manners, hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds; who being the effulgence of his glory, and the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had made purification of sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Heb 1:1-3

    The revelation of God through the Lord Jesus Christ is one of the prime, if not the primary, theme of the Bible. When you see Christ, that is exactly what God wants us to know about Him.

    There's nothing wrong with the use of 'personalities' in the OP.
     
  4. Revmitchell

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    The use of the word personalities makes it look like modalism.
     
  5. Reformed

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    Agreed. Three persons, not three personalities.
     
  6. kyredneck

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    Ah, you all are splitting hairs and straining out gnats.

    What don't you just come out and ask the OP, 'Are you a Modalist'?
     
  7. Revmitchell

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    There is a distinct difference between a personality and a person. In a world full of false doctrines keeping that distinction is important.
     
  8. ShagNappy

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    How do you explain John 1:1 and John 1:14?
     
  9. Van

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    Hi Rev. Autrey, welcome to the BB.

    Why does scripture say what it says? Because it is the word of God and not the invention of men.

    John could say the Word (Jesus) was God, even if God had not been referred to as Savior or Deliverer.

    God is referred to as Savior several times in the Old Testament, but one verse in particular stands out as germane to this topic, Hosea 13:4:

    Here we see the full glory of John's "and the word was God" statement. Jesus had to be fully God, or else the truth of Hosea would have been broken.

    I differ slightly with your designation of "personality" and Sag38's designation as individual. The Trinity doctrine proclaims "God in three persons."

    But I agree with Sag38 the view of God "creating" multiple personalities to interface and communicate with mankind is not scriptural. The three "persons" of the trinity were never created, all three are eternal, always existing.

    But on the other hand, since later in the post you correctly say God in three persons, you may not have even thought the "personalities" were anything other than a synonym for persons. Some of us tend to be a tad judgmental, me more than most.

    Did you see the movie Avatar, where a person through the magic of science fiction incarnates a being from another world. In a way, the eternal spirit, the Second person of the Trinity, the Word, Logos, Son, became flesh, flesh of this world, but He was God incarnate.

    Lastly, I agree that the Word did and does speak to us, but not always as Jesus. Recall the burning bush where the voice spoke to Moses. That was, I believe, the pre-incarnate Word, the "I AM" presenting Himself as flames that do not consume. Also, consider the "Angel of the Lord" sometimes speaking as if a messager of God, but not God, and at other times speaking as God. Again, I believe the "Angel of the Lord" was the pre-incarnate Word, the Second Person of the Trinity.
     
  10. kyredneck

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    Rev. Autrey, are you a Modalist?

    You're freaking the paranoids out.
     
    #10 kyredneck, Aug 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2014
  11. Reformed

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    When dealing with the doctrine of the Trinity it is neigh impossible to cut the hair too fine. There is too much at risk.
     
  12. sag38

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    Ky the man asked a question. No one is freaking out but you? I did not accuse him of being a modalist. I simply made a distinction between person and personality. If he meant otherwise then he can say so without your help. I think the man or woman can speak for him or herself.

    Jesus is not God the Father any more than God the Father is Jesus. And yet both are one and both are God. Doesn't make logical sense in my mind. But, not everything about God is logical and I am ok with that. His ways are not my ways and His thoughts are not my thoughts.
     
  13. sag38

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    God does not have a "Dissociative Identity Disorder" (same person with multiple personalities) like Sybil.
     
  14. kyredneck

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    #14 kyredneck, Aug 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2014
  15. kyredneck

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    The OP made this statement:

    To which you erroneously asserted with confidence:

    To which I replied:

     
  16. kyredneck

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    So, Rev. Autrey, are you a Modalist? Have you crept unawares into our campsite with the intent to corrupt us all with this damnable heresy? Is this what you believe?:

    "...a denial of the Trinity. Modalism states that God is a single person who, throughout biblical history, has revealed Himself in three modes or forms. Thus, God is a single person who first manifested himself in the mode of the Father in Old Testament times. At the incarnation, the mode was the Son; and after Jesus' ascension, the mode is the Holy Spirit. These modes are consecutive and never simultaneous. In other words, this view states that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit never all exist at the same time--only one after another. Modalism denies the distinctiveness of the three persons in the Trinity even though it retains the divinity of Christ...."
    http://carm.org/modalism
     
    #16 kyredneck, Aug 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2014
  17. sag38

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    Ky, you are misunderstanding what I am saying. Jesus did speak as God but not as God the Father. Is that clear enough for you?
     
  18. percho

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    I thought Jesus said the words he spoke were not his own but the Father's.
     
  19. JamesL

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    That doesn't make a lick of sense
     
  20. JamesL

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    :thumbs:

    The paranoids are shuddering under the threat of Roman Catholic anathema, that they're afraid to look for themselves.

    In the "Three Persons" doctrine, what constitutes a "Person" ?
    Three Entities?
    Three Deities?
    Three Gods?
    Three Partners?
    Three Co-laborers?
    Three Personalities?
    Three Spirits?
    Three Beings?
     

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