Why don't Jews Live By The Law?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by TexasSky, May 10, 2005.

  1. TexasSky

    TexasSky
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    This is one of those naggy little things that has bothered me for years. If Jews do not believe in Christ, logic says they must still believe in the old law. So, why don't they follow it?
    Do they have some story of a revelation from God that said, "You don't have to sacrifice your best to receive forgiveness?"
     
  2. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Messages:
    5,075
    Likes Received:
    4
    To which sect are you referring?
    One who practices Orthodox Judaism follows The Law.
    I dated a Jewish girl in college (actually I was crazy in love with her back then!! [​IMG] ), and she was of the Reform Judaism persuasion. She didn't really take The Law as seriously, especially given the fact that she was in love with a Gentile. I heard someone once ask her if she was "a practicing Jew," and she replied that she didn't have to "practice," as she "had been a Jew all [her] life." [That was actually pretty funny.] She kept kosher, and went to shabbat regularly, but didn't follow the whole of The Law. I never really got a straight answer from her on this subject, as she usually got playful in her answers to my questions.

    Regards to you,
    BiR
     
  3. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,139
    Likes Received:
    320
    Because it is physically impossible.

    Their history plays a big role in their present state of discouragement.

    In 70AD, Titus razed the temple (Beit Hamikdash ) and slaughtered the Levitical priesthood.

    No temple, no priesthood.
    Biblical Judaism cannot be kept without these two essential elements.

    Besides all that the Land (HaEretz) has been defiled and trampled underfoot by the Gentiles (Goyim) and needs to be cleansed by the ashes of the Red Heifer.

    Talmudic Judaism (for the most part) is what is being kept today by Jews who are awaiting the Messiah to cleanse the Land, restore the Temple and bring in the Kingdom of God.

    Here is a URL, if you can look past the Hebrew theological terminology, you should be able to see and perhaps feel the anguish of this rabbi's heart.

    http://www.darchenoam.org/articles/web/holidays/ar_10tevet_res.htm

    Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.


    HankD
     
  4. TexasSky

    TexasSky
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    As far as I know, BiR, even the Orthodox Jews don't keep a lot of the old laws such as making sacrifices, a woman having to purify everything she touched each month, that kind of thing. Not sure they stone people for breaking certain laws either. I also don't know of anyone other than the Hasidic Jews who keep the dress rules.

    I don't want them to do those things either, I'm just curious as to when they decided they didnt' have to and why they made the decision.
     
  5. Ben W

    Ben W
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2002
    Messages:
    8,868
    Likes Received:
    0
    When Jerusalem fell in 70AD, their temple was destroyed and they were scattered. Restantly different schools of Judaism were formed and it is regarded by many that the current Judaism, even in its most orthodox sense is still not comparable to Mosaic Judaism.
     
  6. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Messages:
    5,075
    Likes Received:
    4
    TexasSky:

    I do recall one rainy night when we decided to go running in the rain and ended up getting pinned down under an awning (rain became extremely hard). We were discussing something trivial, and she beamed those deep brown eyes at me, and asked me why "you Christians read your Bibles so literally."

    I cannot remember what we were discussing, but I remember that I was taken aback by the statement. Perhaps that is why?

    Of course, I don't know: just thinking aloud.

    Hope you are doing well tonight,
    BiR
     
  7. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    A few years ago I witnessed to a lady who had been a rabbi's wife. Her husband had died a few years earlier. I asked her something similar. I asked her about how Jews attain righteousness. She told me they attain righteousness by doing good. So then I asked her about how much good would she have to do. She got somewhat angry with me when I started prying a little. I find it to work rather well when I try to use the same arguments that were used in the early church with Jews.

    They do not like Isaiah 53.
     
  8. donnA

    donnA
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    When you read the OT you find that they never did. They were constantly straying from the law to foreign gods and rituals.
     
  9. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    As far as the temple sacrifices go, since there is no temple, there are no more sacrifices. They believe in praying for forgiveness and doing good works.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  10. mountainrun

    mountainrun
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2001
    Messages:
    567
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is impossible for anyone to live by the law as it's purpose was to lead us to Christ and to convict of sin.

    It is also impossible to keep in any political arena apart from a total theocracy.

    MR
     
  11. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,970
    Likes Received:
    128
    I attended an affluent Jewish man's funeral a while back with a Christian co-worker.

    The family spoke of his valient struggles during the last years when he was dying. They told of how he had a profound impact upon their lives during their youth. They said they would remember him forever. It was meant to be inspiring.

    ...as we walked away and discussed it, we couldn't help but notice that there was no mention of heaven or even of an after-life. So very sad!

    A person becomes a Jew at birth; their social life revolves around others of a similar background. Their synagogues have become socal activity centers ( many with a rich liberal bend).

    They act as if God is not real because He no longer manifests Himself as He once did...If He is alive, He has left them... (so like many professing to be "Christian" today :( ).

    Rob
     
  12. TexasSky

    TexasSky
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    I'm told that most modern Jews do not believe in heaven or hell. It was explained to me that they think if they are good enough now, God rewards them now, and then life ends.

    This absolutely shocked me.
     
  13. TexasSky

    TexasSky
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    As far as the temple sacrifices go, since there is no temple, there are no more sacrifices. They believe in praying for forgiveness and doing good works.

    Joseph Botwinick

    -----
    That is unbiblical according to the Torah.
    According to the Torah, - if they couldn't get to temple, they were supposed to build an alter and make their sacrifices where they were.

    Mountain man - I know they can't live up to the law. That isn't my point.

    My point is - if they claim that they are holding to the old law - why don't they? Why do they lie to themselves?
     
  14. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am simply giving you the answer that an Orthodox Israeli Jew gave me when I asked that same question about 2 years ago. I didn't say a word about whether or not it is Biblical. Would you please give me a scripture reference from the Torah where it says that?

    Thanks,

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  15. StefanM

    StefanM
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    6,424
    Likes Received:
    72
    Well, what do you think the Jews did in the exile?
     
  16. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    Is that directed toward me? If so, I am not sure. Why don't you tell us and then quote the scripture passage to support it so we can learn from you?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  17. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Messages:
    5,075
    Likes Received:
    4
    My aforementioned ex-girlfriend definitely did not believe in Hell.

    Hope your weekend is as fantastic as mine has been,

    BiR
     
  18. TexasSky

    TexasSky
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    I'll have to look up the references. I ran across it accidentally when I was reading Leviticus and Deuteronomy. I can't remember which book it was in, but it was addressed to those who couldn't travel to the priest.

    The laws of sacrifices to God were made long before the Temple was ever built.

    There is also the simple fact that even in Christ's day, while the temple of Jerusalem was important, individual communities often had worship places for observing the sabbath. They didn't ALL have the Ark of the Covenant in them, yet Jews used those synagogues to pay their atonements.
     
  19. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    7,152
    Likes Received:
    0
    Interesting discussion Texas Sky.

    I believe the scripture you are talking about is in Deut. 12. Verse 21 to be specific, but it must be read in context with the rest of the chapter.
     
  20. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,139
    Likes Received:
    320
    The fact that the Temple in Jerusalem has been destroyed and at this point in time cannot be rebuilt because of political circumstance is a discouragment for Jews. This is from the article I posted earlier:
    http://www.darchenoam.org/articles/web/holidays/ar_10tevet_res.htm

    Psalm 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
    2 We hanged our harps upon the willows in the midst thereof.
    3 For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song; and they that wasted us required of us mirth, saying, Sing us one of the songs of Zion.
    4 How shall we sing the LORD'S song in a strange land?
    5 If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning.
    6 If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy.

    Amos 9
    9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
    10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.
    11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
    12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.

    HankD
     

Share This Page

Loading...