1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Why follow the world honoring Easter & Christmas

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by ituttut, Mar 9, 2008.

  1. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    3,553
    Likes Received:
    11
    That's not what I said. I said nothing about "secular" observation. However, I do consider an Eostre or Christ-mass "service" to be a violation of not ony the regulative principle, but is a direct violation of the commandment of God as quoted in my post.

    I am not against soul winning, but I am against using soul winning as an excuse to disobey God.
     
  2. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,356
    Likes Received:
    1,776
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Okay, I'll accept your clarification. But you must know that you were very unclear in your first post. Since as far as I remember I was the only one who had mentioned giving the Gospel at Christmas and Easter, how was I to know you were not mocking me? And you were mocking, whoever your target was. Please be more clear next time.

    And now that brings me to your accusation that celebrating a Christmas or Easter service in the church is idolatry. Frankly, I think that is ridiculous. I have seen pure idolatry literally hundreds of times in many places: children bowing and praying to a roadside jizo (child Buddha), a Shinto ceremony dedicating a house, people bowing to the "Great Buddha" (60 feet tall) in Kamakura near where we used to live in Yokohama, people worshipping the dead person at funerals (even a Japanese Catholic funeral)--I could go on an on.

    Yet the only Person I've seen people bow to and pray to and honor and praise and worship at a Christmas or Easter church service is our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. So again, you are mocking good Christians who simply want to follow the Lord.
     
  3. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    3,553
    Likes Received:
    11
    Will, I didn't use the word idolatry. If Easter and Christmas (I used the modern words - feel better?) is not in the Bible, why do "good" Christians observe it? And can you tell me how Easter and Christmas do not violate the scripture I quoted?
     
  4. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,356
    Likes Received:
    1,776
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Scripture you used was talking about idolatry. It talked about serving other gods, and that is idolatry. Do you deny that?

    And sure I can tell you how Easter and Christmas (which you celebrate) do not violate the scripture you quoted. It's very simple. The celebration of these days do not include the woship (bowing down and serving) of other gods. Until you can prove that Christians somehow worship idols in their Christmas and Easter services, you have no case--none whatsoever.

    And if Sunday School and training union and celebrating birthdays and having a piano in the service are not in the Bible, why do good Christians observe them? Your logic is the typical, "Brother, it ain't in the Bible so it's a sin."

    The Bible does not command us not to celebrate Christ's birth and resurrection. But it does command us to get the Gospel to every creature and glorify Christ. So I will do so and consider it a good, even a glorious thing. All glory to Jesus!
     
  5. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    3,553
    Likes Received:
    11
    The thread I just started on the regulative principle would be a good place to continue this debate. See you there?
     
  6. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,356
    Likes Received:
    1,776
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I'll check it out, but I can't guaranatee much participation right away since it is Friday night here, and of course the weekend is my busiest time. I'll be frank, I don't know what you mean by "the regulative principle," so perhaps I'll learn something.
     
  7. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    80
    Grace robbery ought to be a crime :).
     
  8. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    8,755
    Likes Received:
    0
    One of the more perceptive comments I've seen on the BB on two years! :thumbs:

    In fact, it is a 'crime'.
    Ed
     
  9. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    2
    Wow, that's good Ed. Your Biblical whit is right on 99% of the time.
     
  10. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    80
    Amen and amen.

    Last time I preached through Galatians that is the passage that REALLY stuck out and changed A LOT in my own life.

    I no longer submit to the grace robbers.
     
  11. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    2
    "Grace Robbers" That will preach. It's the modern equivalent of pharisee.
     
  12. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,356
    Likes Received:
    1,776
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Great turn of phrase, Roger!
     
  13. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    80
    I think I got that phrase from something I read along the way so it may not be mine :)
     
  14. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,356
    Likes Received:
    1,776
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Aw, go ahead, take credit! :thumbs: :D
     
  15. JerryL

    JerryL New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    972
    Likes Received:
    0
    If you go by KJV(which I don't) you can find Easter
    Act 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.
     
  16. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    2
    Wow JerryL I could think of all kinds of sarcastic remarks. But, I think your quote says enough.
     
  17. JerryL

    JerryL New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    972
    Likes Received:
    0
    No sarcasm what so ever. He said you can't find Easter in the Bible. I showed where you could in the KJV. I told that I didn't use the KJV, so that nobody would accuse me of being KJVO. I think you are reading wrong into my post.
     
  18. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello again HankD, and happy to be back "computin".

    We just approach this subject from different perspectives of what we know. I endeavor to see what the Bible has to say about things such as this. No doubt the angels and the heavenly host celebrated Jesus' birthday. The problem, according to the Bible, is that the shepherds were in the field watching over their sheep by night. At this time the shepherds did not have their sheep out in the wintertime. They housed them, and fed them in a Manger, in the winter time. Jesus was born in a manger, and the reason he was is because the manger was not in use. The sheep were out feeding in the fields, and not feeding from the manger. Sheep eat grass in the fields in spring, summer, and fall months, and winter they ate hay or other grain from a manger. There are other reasons we know December is out of the question, and all biblical information points to Jesus being born the latter parts of September, or early October. What would the sheep be feeding on in the winter? In the morning they would be eating GRASS in the fields, and there is no GRASS to eat in the winter.
    I personally go along with the commercial part of Christmas, but not of the spirit taking Christmas into the church, or honoring this date as the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ. I do not fault or judge you in what you do as you believe differently than I, and are unaware of certain things. I only endeavor to inform of what the Bible says, and not what man says is truth.
    We use the vernacular of the day as the days are how we identify a day in the week. Also the Christian does not go to the Temple, or the church on the Sabbath. If we did we would do as Israel did when God recognized them as His people. We would number our days. But we are not Israel today. I notice we Christians most often refer to Sunday as the first day of the week, and as we are not Israel we continue to use what has been accepted by we Gentiles and the names of the week. We render unto Caesar (the worldly things), and to God the things that are God's.

    This is the reason I go along with the commercial part of Christmas, but avoid worshiping on this day, in church or out, His Birthday on December 25. I believe what I find in the Bible, and not what man wishes me to think. Again. unto Caesar what he gives us, and that is a "commercial and worldly Christmas."
    Perhaps it would be good to question the founding fathers of the Baptist church as to the beginning of Wednesday to be the chosen for "prayer meeting".

    It Is best to know certain facts and one is the French Christians do not connect "Woden" to Wednesday, but the "planet Mercury". Pagan also, to be sure, and the heathen had names of the week, all from Pagan origins, before Christianity was known. Christianity accepted these names. Why would we today try to connect what was accepted by them to Christmas, and Easter that did not even exist?

    The Apostles knew when Jesus was born. If they had set aside the birthday of Jesus, or an Easter Sunday, why didn't they tell us about this? Circa 300 years later a man brought these pagan Holidays into the church. I believe the Bible and not Constantine.

    Neither the "circumcised" church in Jerusalem, nor the "uncircumcised churches" of the Gentiles had any such Holy Days. The Apostles knew when Jesus was born, and they make no mention of this fact for evidently the Holy Spirit did not wish for it to be remembered as He knows the heart of man. What would man do? Begin to worship a day, along with their Lord Jesus Christ. God is no longer of this world, for the Son sits beside His Father in heaven. Do we not do our level best trying to "bring Jesus down from heaven" to worship, and remember Him in a worldly manner. Romans 10:6, "But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above).

    Our worship and remembering him is "Spiritual" which He plainly asks us to do as we "drink the wine (blood) from the cup". He is no longer of this earth for He is alive today in heaven awaiting His Father to "put all things beneath His feet".

    Today the "Jew" (by blood) has been blinded, along with many others in the world, but you and I have been chosen, however we are not in the same part of the Body of Christ? We will be in His Kingdom, whether of earth, or of the heavenlies.
    This is, and was known to me, but these names are "heathen" generated before Christianity as explained above. We should not be trying to say we believed as the pagans did before Christianity, and continue to do so after Christianity was founded.
    Perhaps you are not reading (thinking this is just ituttut talking) or you are not comprehending my posts. Nowhere have I judged you, but as pointed out presenting scripture to you to accept or deny. Your choice to believe in whom you believe, and why?
    You speak to the tongue of man here. If you will look again, all that I offer is the Word of God. We accept His Word, or we reject and believe as man.
    Do you claim to be perfect? His Word is, and we are to spread it unabashedly.
    Acts 13:45-49, "But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. 46. Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. 47. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. 48. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. 49. And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region." I am so glad the two men, and them only, were sent to give light to the Gentiles.

    Enveloped with me HankD in…….
     
  19. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the post Joe. I'm happy others have an understanding in this matter.

    What I do not understand, (many do believe December 25 is the day Jesus was born), is why those that are more knowledgeable about such matters, continue to honor this day as Jesus' birthday, when they know it is a farce? Abrupt and critical words perhaps, but we know the truth, and we are to tell it. If we don't stand, can we depend on those that continue to believe (or not believe), preach, and observe this particular day chosen by man?

    Do I judge? Some may think so, but if one looks closely to what I say, they will find they are not my words.
     
  20. JerryL

    JerryL New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    972
    Likes Received:
    0
    I also don't think He was born in December(winter), but closer to when we celebrate Easter(spring). I don't let myself get too caught up in this though. Like the posters' quote early on, "If the WORLD wants to set aside a day to honor my Lord, I'll celebrate it." Spring is a time of renewal and newness, It seems like a good time to honor my King, even if it happens at the same time as that fertility bunny rabbit god is being honored. There are more lost in Church at Easter than any other time of the year, maybe some of them will get a spark of life fed to them at that time that leads to Salvation. Why would we want to wreck that?
     
Loading...