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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Ben W, Jul 29, 2005.
Might well have something to do with this.
They probably saw some of the things they eat. Believe me a pig will eat anything! I could tell you of an experience I had when I was a kid concerning some pigs but I dont want to make any of you sick.
We don't know why God forbade them from eating pork; we only know that God was teaching them clean and unclean so they could understand the holiness of God, and be set apart from the pagan customs.
In Acts this was all changed when God said no food was unclean. This is repeated in another part of the NT which I can't think of right now.
Of course, I think today we can take into the account the problems (and cruelty) of factory farming and how it is not really hygenic. I'm glad I'm vegetarian.
Acts 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
1 Timothy 4:4-5 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
1 Corinthians 10:25-26 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
1 Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
Mark 7:18-23 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
The Bible is clear. God has created all things, and nothing is to be unclean.
The only reason that some foods were unclean in the OT, or that God gave them a very special diet is for reasons of separation from all the other nations. Their diet was different. Their clothing was different. Their religion was different. Their entire way of life was different. Everything about them was different. And so it should be with us. We are different from the world--maybe not so much in our diet--but in our separation from the world, which may include many things: the music we listen to, the way we dress, the places we go to, the friends we choose, etc.
Next, it'll be bird flu in chickens and mad cow disease in beef. What are we gonna eat?
God gave us common sense, a brain to use, technology that our brain has been able to develop over time. We ought to thank him for what he do have available to us, not complain for the unknown diseases that have come our way. And thank God, that he has enabled us to find cures for these various things. Just think, some years ago, the cure for epilepsy and some other diseases was drinking the urine of a cow. Aren't you glad that technology has increased to the point that we know a bit more than that, even though we don't know all that we should about epilepsy.
What I find interesting is that Pigs are actually Cannibals. If a pig dies in the sty and the others are hungry they will eat it, resultingly if you then eat the flesh of one of those pigs that has been into Cannibalism, you will get the pig version of mad cow disease and die.
What God commanded then to the Jews makes alot of sense, because He spared them from being exposed to disease that would have ravaged them. Even today in third world nations where there is much disease, if you implement the cleanliness and eating laws of the Old Testament, you can stop most diseases in their tracks.
Amazing that what science discovers today, the Bible taught 6000+ years ago!
Don't remember the author, but an excellent book re: this is "NONE OF THESE DISEASES".
Makes an excellent devotional book also.
The dietary laws given to Moses by God, were for the general health of His people. Both long, and short term. Anyone who has a heart attack, will immediately be told by their doctor to stop eating pork, red meat, and all other foods that retain to much fat. Do you think that God is unaware of these basics?
Also, as we are just now learning, animals can spread deadly disease to humans. No doubt, those that have been pronounced unclean, are more likely to do so. However, we know from the mad cow incidents, that this is not always the case, even though we basically brought that one upon ourselves.
I have read articles to the effect that influenza, which wiped out about fifty million people when it first broke out, came from swine, or pig. No doubt, those animals which retain more fat, may also more easily retain diseases that we could catch from eating them. Everyone knows not to eat pork that isn’t cooked well, the consequences could be deadly. God told the children of Israel not even to touch swine. No doubt this is because of their filthy life style. Remember, there was no modern medicine to stop the spread of disease in those days. Naturally then, God took every precaution for His people, to keep them healthy, and happy.
There are those who twist the scriptures to say that everything is clean to be eaten. This is nonsense. There are countless things in nature, that if eaten, will kill the ones who eat it. Either everything is clean, or some things aren’t, and some things are. You can’t have it both ways.
Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith
Not necessarily. Mad cow disease and other prion diseases arise spontaneously in some animals or people due to a genetic mutation. The mutated prion is an abnormal protein that is resistant to breakdown. It has the ability to modify normal prions to the abnormal configuation. The prion can be spread to other animals or people by the consumption of tissue containing the prion, especially nerve or brain tissue. We made mad cow disease a problem by putting animal meal into cow feed. Theoretically a pig cannibalizing another could transmit a prion disease, but not likely as the spontaneous disease is rare.
Where prion diseases are concerned sheep are more likely to be a vector, and they are considered clean animals. The prion disease called scrapie is a fairly common problem among sheep. Fortunately there is so far no evidence that it spreads to people.
Pigs aren't really filthy animals besides rolling in mud because they are unable to sweat. As long as good husbandry practices are followed they will be relatively clean.
What would fat have to do with "retaining disease"?
I think they may have been named unclean because they do have more of a chance of transmitting trichina from undercooked meat, or possibly because they are omnivorous, or maybe just because!
rats cats bears and bats - God forbade mankind from eating them because as the Creator of ALL biology HE knows what is "edible" and what is "for food" (these the words HE uses in Lev 11).
Even before the Jews and before Israel - in Gen 7 God was making this distinction.
John Gill points this out as applicable LONG BEFORE Sinai --
From Lev 11
Christ the Creator provides HIS statement on what is food for mankind and what is “not edible” what is “not to be eaten”
Since God is making the rules here – and God is the Creator of all flesh – mankind does well to listen to Christ the Creator in this regard.
God speaks of what we are not to eat and what we may eat of. (this is not a command that we MUST eat of the clean only that we are allowed to eat of it)
There is a very simply rule for land animals.
Again not that you “must eat them” but you are allowed to eat them.
However the following list are unclean and “must not” be eaten.
God appeals to His own Lordship over mankind – His role as Creator and His right to call mankind to be “Holy” for “God IS Holy” rather than God’s people choosing to be “detestable”
God calls upon His people to BE like God in walking in holiness. John says we are to WALK as Christ walked in 1John 2.
Paul says we Have “the mind of Christ” in 1Cor 2.
In summary God calls this section HIS view of what may be eaten – and what should not be eaten at all.
Clearly then the rat, cat, dog and bat sandwich “is not to be eaten”, and mankind can freely read and know this.
Christ the Creator did not say “please do not eat “too much” of the rat, dog, and cat sandwich”. Nor did He argue “because you are in poor health today - then for a while you may not eat of the rat, cat, dog and bat sandwich”. All such edits of the text are merely “wishful thinking”.
If you are going to keep that portion of the law, why not keep all of it? Whould you not be that much more spiritual, and healthy?
That's not exactly cannibalism, it's scaverngerism. Many scavenger animals will eat their own kind if hungry enough.
BTW, this typically applies to ferrol animals. Domesticated animals, including pigs, typically won't engage in it' since they are typically well fed.
Take if from me, a 4H parent.
The bottom line is "how many ways are there to ignore the Word of God?".
In other words -- if we dont simply "ignore all of it" then can we just turn a blind eye to EVERYTHING before the cross?
You know - the Gospels and ALL the OT???
What about just ignoring the first 5 books of the Bible?
OF course that would mean that all the NT writers were wrong to quote those 5 books -- but we could pretend not to notice that - couldn't we?
Then why aren't all of these other things, such as poison ivy and poison mushroom/toadstool, etc. ever called "unclean"? Because unclean is NOT about "health". It is about spiritual "DEFILEment"! You yourself said it: "No doubt this is because of their filthy life style." This had MORAL/spiritual significance, and note the behavioral characteristics of all the clean animals compared to the unclean(physically "filthy" or not. The hare has the same basic diet as the clean animals, but it was a pest to an agrarian society, and it's quick multiplying was associated with lasciviousness. And note, it is only animals; no plants.
And if pork is so "poisonous" like those other things, why are people able to eat it so long? What about all the centenarians who are not kosher?).
God forbade His people to eat pork in the Old Testament because it was harmful to the human body.
And that fact doesnt change just because we are living in the time of the New Testament. Pork is still harmful to the human body, as is all of the unclean meats. God does not arbitrarily forbid His creatures to do things just to show His power, He does it because He loves them and doesnt wish any harm to come to them.
The unclean animals were not designed to be used as human food.
and click on:
Is it unhealthy to eat pork?
and of course there are more links there you can listen to on clean and unclean meats, etc.
I think I mostly agree with Eric B here--they weren't unclean necessarily because they're bad to eat. However, although they were unclean, I don't think they're forbidden to eat today.
In Acts 15 there was a great debate about whether Gentile believers needed to become circumcised and follow Mosaic law. The upshot of this was:
Because of this, I think we can eat as much pork and rabbit as we like. If it was good enough for Sam Gamgee, it's good enough for me!
You still have to explain why there is no command not to eat poisonous plants, and nothing about "defilement" regarding them. And how people can live to be 100 eating pork.
This "health" argument actually plays into the hands of people who dismiss the Bible as manmade, and/or that because there are healthier ways to prepare it, that proves the law is outdated.