Why I do what I do the way I do it

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Luke2427, Nov 7, 2011.

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  1. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    I want to both explain my methods and call you to consider employing them to some degree yourselves due to the fact that I believe so much is at stake.

    I am not an intellectual elitist. I do not think you have to have an M.Div. to speak, even authoritatively, on these issues.

    I do not have an M.Div. myself.

    But I DO think that whether or not one has a degree, he ought to know what he is talking about, and be able to base his declarations on valid, logical argumentation, sound exegesis and solid hermeneutics.

    I think he ought to understand something about context, authorial intent, literary genre of the book he is exegeting, the original language of the text he is exegeting and he ought to value the tremendous importance of historical theology.

    I think if he does not understand these things, then he ought to have the humility to remain silent until he learns them. This is because, when it comes to matters that have to do with the glory of God and the eternal souls of men, proclaiming things and arguing for things that you don't understand is EXTREMELY dangerous- to oneself and the ones who he might influence.

    This is not a game. This is not something to be handled lightly. This is not an innocent exercise or a source of harmless fellowship. This is not a harmless pass time. People read this forum. Somebody is right and somebody is wrong and on many of the things we discuss there hang eternal consequences.

    I am intense on purpose. It is not just my personality. I believe it is RIGHT to reprove darkness and cast down ideas and philosophies and beliefs that exalt themselves against the knowledge of God.

    Some of these topics are not as weighty as others. Whether you hold to the regulative principle or the normative principle, whether you are infra or supra in your lapsarian view point, whether you prefer the TR or the Alexandrian texts, etc... are not as heavy as whether or not you base your beliefs on right thinking and good hermeneutics, or if you believe men are born sinners or not, or if you are KJVO, or if you are a legalist, or if you ignore the whole of church history in your pursuit of your doctrines, whether or not you believe that God is truly omniscient and Sovereign, etc...

    And I am aggressive in my condemnation of some things on purpose. I think it is right to be that way. I think it is sin NOT to be on many matters. I think silence, or sweetness in addressing many matters is absolutely unbiblical and the opposite of what our Lord has commanded us to be. I think we are losing our culture because many Christians have a VERY confused idea of what real humility and compassion are.

    I think the horrid ignorance, arrogance and irreverence of the Church in our culture has created an environment where the damnable doctrines and philosophies of Rob Bell and Joel Osteen and Mormonism and United Pentecostalism are able to thrive. You can poison mold forever- but if you don't change the environment where it thrives you will always have the mold poisoning and killing those who live in the midst of it.

    Rob Bell, Joel Osteen, United Pentecostalism, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Jim Jones, etc... could not thrive in a much deeper, much more theologically astute Christian culture. It is exactly this hyper independence and rabid clinging to simplicity and anti-intellectualism (which I sincerely beleive you find in much of IFB and SBC and non-denominationalism, etc...) that creates the conditions in which this deadly mold of heresy thrives. It thrives in a religious culture which is filled with ignorance, arrogance and irreverence.

    I think coddling this ignorance and arrogance and irreverence is sin. I think speaking to it sweetly is terrible error. I think that we are doomed as a culture unless God changes the hearts and philosophies of the true Church in our culture to do what must be done- to confront these things head on, condemn them outright and to aggressively seek to purge these evils from our culture before they kill it.

    That is why I do what I do the way I do it. It believe it is right and I believe it is wrong for people who are qualified to speak out on these matters to fail to do so and to fail to reprove the unfruitful works of darkness in our culture with passion and clarity.
     
    #1 Luke2427, Nov 7, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 7, 2011
  2. preacher4truth

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    Bro Luke2427, well written with candor and honesty.

    We must count what is at stake.

    We must not rush into debates merely to serve as cheerleaders for something we have not studied out simply to be seemingly antagonistic.

    I also don't think threads should have an objective merely to snare others in order to punish any feedback of one that happens to disagree with said theological stance, or to draw in differing theological camps to punish them readily whenever a rebuttal is solid.

    I also believe true arrogance stems from an ignorance of the facts of what said doctrine teaches, while attacking it vigorously. It is most unwise to do so.

    You're correct in your stance. I know where you are coming from.
     
  3. matt wade

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    This is a forum. If you want to get on a soapbox and have only your views heard, get yourself a web site. Until that time I'll comment on any and all threads I feel like I want to comment on, regardless of whether I understand the original language that the book was written in.
     
  4. quantumfaith

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    Luke,

    I feel, sense and understand your passions on these matters. I do not think as one could gather from you, that anyone here takes anything here flippantly or casually. You should not assume thus, even when disagreeing with them totally (or being convinced that they are in error). Right or wrong, most that comment here feel as though they have applied significant hours of study, be it personal or professional in nature, and are convinced that they, as best they can, have things correct as they understand them.

    I greatly admire your ability to defend your positions with great clarity, logic, skill and "articularity". I understand it is your passion, I could only hope you could be a bit "softer" around the edges. (speaking only for myself). This should not be seen as request for you to compromise anything you are convinced of. As far as I can tell, all that with some degree of regularity who participate in these discussions claim to have a personal and vibrant relationship with God through Christ.
     
  5. Amy.G

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    And at what point can I be assured that I know enough to talk about it? Who decides? Should we take a BB theological test before we can post?
     
  6. Luke2427

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    And this is the problem. And I believe that many, if not most people on this forum agree that this is a problem.

    It is VERY problematic that we have people, like yourself, who speak authoritatively on matters on which hang eternal consequences who do not care what the original language of the text in question is actually saying.

    That kind of haphazard view of the handling of sacred Scripture is extremely irreverent. We ought to tremble at God's Word. We ought to shutter at the thought of misrepresenting it. And that trembling ought to keep us from commenting UNTIL we are sure the original language is saying what we think.

    This is true because people read this forum and are influenced by it.

    But not only is an understanding of original languages essential to the Christian who is about to speak out on the Word of God, but so is his understanding of the context, the authorial intent, the historical/cultural setting, the overall biblical and systematic theologies with which it has to do and a respect for the historical theology of the Body of Christ.

    If you do not care for such things, then you ought to have the humility to never post because of how you might influence impressionable readers. And that is a plain fact.
     
  7. Luke2427

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    You can be sure that if you do not understand these things then you should remain silent.

    I think that is simple. It is not a complicated position.

    Understand the historical, cultural, grammatical characteristics of the text. Understand the original languages involved. Understand how this text fits in biblical and systematic theology. Value the historical orthodox Christian Church view on the text, etc...

    This is BASIC.

    No one should argue that these things are not essential before they publish authoritatively their viewpoints on an open website such as this one where hundreds, and possibly thousands, could read and be influenced by what is said.
     
  8. Amy.G

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    Food for thought:


    Ephesians 4:15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ

    Philippians 2:3 Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. 4 Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others.
     
  9. Amy.G

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    Well, I admit I'm pretty ignorant on church history and systematic theology. I also don't know Greek or Hebrew.

    So I will just ask the admins to remove my membership from the board.
     
  10. matt wade

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    Too bad..I'll continue to post if I want to. Go create your own "elite" forum where you can have an entrance exam.
     
  11. quantumfaith

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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  12. Luke2427

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    That is exactly what I question.

    QF, think about what you read here. There are people who LITERALLY SAY that they don't CARE what the original languages actually say before they comment. There are people who LITERALLY SAY that they do not need ANY HUMAN HELP WHATSOEVER to understand ANYTHING in the Bible.

    I wish that what you say here was so- but it cannot be.

    I know you wish that. And I know that many others wish that too. And I know that being softer than I am (or in the way I address these matters) on many of these things is the majority view in our Christian culture today.

    But I do not believe that that is the right way to handle many of these matters.

    If someone is promoting a view point (not Arminianism, BTW) that dims the glory of God, that endangers the souls of men, that slows the progress of the Kingdom of God, that is irreverent in its handling of sacred Scripture, that is presented haphazardly with no regard for the seriousness of its nature, etc... I do not think it is good and right to fail to reprove it with vehemence.

    I like for people to like me just like everybody else does. I do not enjoy being despised. But there is something more important to me than being liked.

    And there is one more thing here. I pray and long for a reformation in our culture- a Great Awakening. I read the works of men who God has historically used to bring about those great revivals. They were not soft around the edges when addressing such things. They were called arrogant. They were despised by many. I am praying that many today will consider this and rise up and be willing to take the same lumps for the cause of Christ and our culture.
     
  13. Luke2427

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    This is not the rule that dictates the way you handle every single situation.

    If Amy is saying it is, this is EXACTLY what I am talking about.

    Paul, himself, who was the WRITER of these words was VERY OFTEN BOLD and cutting and condemnatory.

    These statements give us the general guidelines for how we conduct our fellowship within the Body of Christ.

    It simply CANNOT be reasonably argued that these mean that we should not reprove the unfruitful works of darkness, withstand a brother to his face when he is in error, condemn to very HELL those that preach another Gospel, etc...

    It simply cannot.

    To say that it does is to be exactly what I spoke about in my OP- VERY confused concerning true biblical humility and compassion.
     
  14. jbh28

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    so you admit that you like to speak on something in the Bible without knowing the "context, authorial intent, literary genre of the book he is exegeting, the original language of the text he is exegeting and he ought to value the tremendous importance of historical theology." you just pulled out one of the things. What about context, authorial intent.
     
  15. Luke2427

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    I have not said that you should do such a thing.

    But recognize the importance of such matters.

    Study thoroughly BEFORE you comment.

    Use lexicons and commentaries and systematic theologies and trace interpretations of that text or subject through church history.

    With all the wonderful resources available to us today, that is not that ominous a task.

    And it is only REASONABLE to WANT to do that before posting an opinion which could very well influence an impressionable reader or NUMEROUS impressionable readers.

    As I said, you don't have to have an M. DIV. to speak on these matters. But you absolutely MUST have good, humble hermeneutics before you speak on weighty matters.
     
  16. Amy.G

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    There is a man that sacks my groceries at the store. He is my age, but is mentally challenged. He loves the Lord and talks about Him regularly. I suppose I should rebuke him for talking about things he knows very little about. He may not even know the NT was written in Greek. I doubt if he knows what systematic theology is either. How dare he share Christ with anybody. :tear:

    This is the dumbest thread in the history of the BB, and that is one thing I DO know something about. And I say that with boldness so as not to appear too "loving".
     
  17. jbh28

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    Question Luke, which of these things is more important than the rest?

    "context, authorial intent, literary genre of the book he is exegeting, the original language of the text he is exegeting and he ought to value the tremendous importance of historical theology.?

    Are you saying one must know Greek/Hebrew to be able to speak about the Bible properly? Just wanting to clarify.
     
  18. Luke2427

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    If that is going to continue to be your attitude I hope that many posters will reprove it.
     
  19. Amy.G

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    No. I think Matt is saying that he has just as much right to post on this public forum as anyone and neither you nor Luke have the right to say he shouldn't.
     
  20. Amy.G

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    I do recognize the importance, believe it or not. But your demands are not valid on a public forum. This is something you should seek in your own local church.

    I do.

    I use commentaries, but don't have any books on systematic theology and see no reason to spend money on them.


    I have never posted anything heretical or damning to someone's soul.

    As I said, who is going to decide that?
     
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