Why is it IF Against KJVO means Against the KJV?

You may have heard me post this before, but what you said is interesting. Because of certain family circumstances I happen to be attending a strongly KJVO IFB that is very legalistic. Let's don't go into why I don't leave now, I've already explained that, it has to do with my grandchildren and their welfare.

What I did want to say is that we had a Chinese missionary visit the church that we are supporting. Apparently, the Chinese only have one Bible in the most popular language (and I don't remember if that Mandrin or another language, but it is the main Chinese language by numbers).

Our preacher stood in the pulpit and put the missionary on the spot and asked him if the Bible he was holding (which was the Chinese Bible he brought to show) was translated from the KJB? IT was obvious the Missionary knew where this was going and did not want to get into a fuss; he said that as far as he knew it was translated from Hebrew and Greek manuscripts. Our pastor told him in front of the whole church that if the Bible wasn't translated directly from the KJB then it was corrupt and he shouldn't be using it. Then he made some kind of comment that if he went to China he would have to preach to them from the KJB and they would have to learn to understand it even if he kept it under the table where they couldn't see it. I felt very sorry for the missionary because I could tell that he knew if he said anything otherwise he would start WWIII right there on the spot. So, obviously, this pastor believes that the KJB is 100% correct and that means the periods, commas, verse numbers, everything came from God because God decided to use English to write His perfect Words. Besides, the KJB was modified 7 times (God's perfect number.) and therefore has to be perfect.

Last Sunday he was reading a scripture and appparently some of the older KJV's have Savior printed with an extra letter. Since I'm not going to waste my time looking it up I just wanted to mentioin that he was reading the Christmas story and stopped at "Savior" and said if your Bible has "Savior" spelled with 6 letters instead of 7 that you need to go back to the store and get a REAL KJB because if it had 6 letters it had an error in it and therefore wasn't God's perfect word.

There has been a couple visiting the church who have been holding NIV study Bible's right in their lap. I see the pastor shake hands with them and I can see him almost go into a spasm when he sees those Bibles because they are big with full cover NIV on the front (hardback style). I'm watching this with interest to see how he's going to get them to get rid of their NIV's because he is so strong KJB I would not doubt he kicks them out of the church for carrying "Satan's Bible" or "The Non-Inspired Version" into HIS church. I just sit back and enjoy the show since I know that there is no way to get this guy to change since he left Missionary Baptist Churches years ago and they started a KJVO Bible college in Arkansas where they teach KJVO'ism to their young pastors--along with all of the legalism. :wavey:

 

The Chinese version he had was probably the Chinese Union Version from about 1900 or so, translated from Nestle's Greek text I believe, used by almost all churches in China. So in the pastor's eyes any Chinese saved in the last 100 years was not saved! Ironically, there is a Chinese Union Version Only movement!

This is a very extreme minority position. I don't remember even Ruckman or Riplinger going this far. We did have a man come to Japan who was this extreme. When he found we had no Japanese version analogous to the KJV, his pastor told him to put the KJV on the pulpit and his hand on the KJV when he preached from the leading conservative Japanese version. Then the KJV would provide the blessing and inspiration!

 

Phillip,how much more of his extremism will it take for you to finally remove yourself from that "pastor/preacher"? Each time you relate his sinful conduct from the pulpit I am surprised you still remain. Yes,I know the reason for remaining is for the grandchildren and your daughter, but still,you have to have a line you will not cross. What is it? What will you absolutely not tolerate?

 

Every pastor needs a 'thorn in the flesh' to keep them honest, or at least to try to do so. That's Phillip's job- I seriously believe that.

 

From the kinds of things Phillip has related numerous times --his "pastor" is not that pastoral. I think he knows he's sinning,but his conscience is being seared.

 

Shucks. I keep forgetting to have the actual Book up there...but my heart is full of it, so I guess I'm okay! :thumbsup:

 

I have to AGREE *gasp* with Rippon. How much damage do you think is being done by STAYING in this church? You need to think about that. Your daughter and grandchildren are being taught ridiculous doctrines that are probably MORE damaging than the damage leaving that church would cause.

 

I think you misunderstand Phillip- his daughter and grandchildren would continue to go there even if he left. He stays to provide a counterbalance for his grandchildren.

 

I don't speak for others...KJVO for me means it is the only version I want or need. It stands for King James Version Only....and that is what I just said.

 

Even B4 I was saved, I believed worship instruction begins AT HOME, and is reinforced by church teaching. And, if the church is teaching something contrary to what the parents believe, it's their job to correctly teach their kids & point out why the church's teachjing was wrong.

In this case, it's easy. The KJVO myth isn't even found in the KJV, let alone in any other version. And no translation made from a translation can be quite as accurate as one made from the most-original source documents we have.

Obviously, the "Savior/Saviour thingie" is taken from one Nic Kizziah's trashy article about "counterfeit KJVs" The REAL explanation is simple...the BRITISH spell most words taken from Latin that end in "or" in American spelling with the "our" ending, I. E. "colour, rumour, ", also found in the KJV....and the KJV is a BRITISH Bible version. That piece of garbage by this Kizziah dude is to be totally ignored by any REAL Christian.

Phillip, I hope U have the chance at home to correct that "pastor's" obvious false teachings to your grandkids, and to eventually get your whole family outta that obviously-defective "church".

 

Are you not in effect attempting to speak for others when you assume and read into their use of the term KJV-only a meaning that they do not accept for it? Your stated meaning would not be the meaning that this forum indicates is the correct or understood one here.

The term KJV-only is used to describe those who make exclusive only claims for the KJV such as claiming that it is the only acceptable, only inspired, or only perfect English translation.

If a person reads only the NKJV, he is not identified as being "NKJV-only." Those who read only the 1560 Geneva Bible during the period of history from 1560 until around the 1650's were not called or identified as "Geneva Bible-only." Those who may have read only the 1537 Matthew's Bible were not identified as "Matthew's Bible-only." Those who read only the NASB are not properly identified as being "NASB-only."

Your attempt to claim that KJV-only means using or reading only the KJV would seem to introduce additional confusion in to the Bible translation issue. By using your own private definition for the term KJV-only, are you in effect inventing a justification for trying to claim that believers who disagree with a modern KJV-only theory are supposedly attacking the KJV?

 

Saviour or Savior

For those that may not know, there were a number of words sometimes spelled in the 1611 edition of the KJV and in some other early KJV editions such as the 1629 Cambridge and 1638 Cambridge with the "our" endings that were later changed to "or" endings even in British KJV editions.

Here are some examples:

Deuteronomy 15:2 [creditour--1560 Geneva]
creditour [1629, 1638, 1683 Cambridge] {1611, 1613, 1614, 1617, 1634 London} (1638 Edinburgh)
creditor (1675, 1769 Oxford, SRB) [1743, 1769 Cambridge, DKJB] {1660 London}

Judges 16:17 [see also Numbers 6:5]
rasor (1675, 1679, 1769, 1799, 1803, 1810, 1812, 1819, 1823 Oxford) [1683, 1743, 1747, 1756, 1760, 1762, 1763B, 1765, 1767, 1769, 1773, 1778, 1790, 1800, 1837, 1842, 1844, 1865, 1869, 1872, 1873 Cambridge] {1611, 1613, 1614, 1617, 1660, 1747, 1750, 1760, 1763, 1764, 1824, 1825 London} (1722, 1756, 1764, 1766, 1769 Edinburgh) (1782 Aitken) (CB) (1999 Collins) (2000, 2002 ZOND) (DSB) (HPB) (2008, 2010, 2011 HEND) (NHPB) (2010 LCBP)
rasour [1629, 1637, 1638 Cambridge] {1634, 1672 London} (1638 Edinburgh)
razor (1715, 1728, 1747, 1754, 1765, 1768, 1777 Oxford, SRB) [1817, 1824, 1833, 1887, 2005 Cambridge, CSTE, DKJB] {1705, 1711, 1767, 1772, 1838 London}

2 Samuel 15:12 [counseler--1560 Geneva; counseller--1602 Bishops]
counseller (1675, 1728, 1769, 1787, 1792, 1795, 1798, 1799, 1804 Oxford) [1629, 1638, 1769, 1778, 1790, 1795, 1800, 1822, 1824, 1837, 1844, 1865, 1869, 1872, 1873, 1887 Cambridge] {1611, 1613, 1614, 1617, 1705, 1711, 1817, 1824, 1825 London} (1638, 1722, 1756, 1764, 1766 Edinburgh) (1999 Collins) (2000, 2002 ZOND) (DSB) (HPB) (2008, 2010, 2011 HEND) (NHPB) (2010 LCBP)
counsellour [1637, 1683 Cambridge] {1660, 1672 London}
counselor (1954, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1988, 2008 ABS) (1975 Open) (CSB) (RRB) (WMCRB) (1987 Dugan) (1991, 2008 AMG) (KJRLB) (EB) (E-R) (1833 WEB)
counsellor (1679, 1715, 1754, 1762, 1765, 1768, 1771, 1772, 1773, 1774, 1778, 1784, 1788 Oxford, SRB, SSB, Oxford Classic, NPB) [1743, 1747, 1756, 1760, 1762, 1763B, 1765, 1767, 1768, 1773, 1817, 2005 Cambridge, CCR, CSTE, DKJB] {1747, 1750, 1760, 1763, 1764, 1767, 1772, 1795, 1838, 1860, 1877, 1879, 1976 London} (1769, 1787, 1789, 1791, 1793, 1820, 1842, 1851, 1858 Edinburgh) (1762 Dublin) (1782 Aitken) (1791 Collins) (1791 Thomas) (1802 Carey) (1815 Walpole) (1818 Holbrook) (1819, 1829, 1843, 1853, 1854, 1855, 1868, 1894, 1902 ABS) (1826 Boston) (1827 Smith) (1832 PSE) (1854 Harding) (1895, 1997 NPC) (1897 ABU) (1911 TCE) (1966 SC) (1973 REG) (GPB) (1976 BH) (1987, 1988 IBS) (1975, 1978 GID) (1940, 1979, 1996 Holman) (Nave’s) (LASB) (CB) (CHSB) (FWP) (VB) (RSB) (LPB) (LCBP) (ROASB) (TCRB) (1984, 1994 ZOND) (Life) (KJVCB) (SFCB) (2008 Pilot) (2010 BRO) (ASB) (2011 Barbour) (2011p HEND)

Job 19:4 [mine errour--1560 Geneva, 1602 Bishops]
mine errour (1679 Oxford) [1629, 1637, 1638, 1683 Cambridge] {1611, 1613, 1614, 1617, 1634, 1672 London} (1638 Edinburgh) (1791 Collins)
my error [2005 Cambridge] (EB) (E-R) (2006 PENG) (1833 WEB)
mine error (1675, 1769 Oxford, SRB) [1769 Cambridge, DKJB]

Job 20:25
terrours (1679, 1715 Oxford) [1629, 1637, 1638, 1683 Cambridge] {1611, 1672 London} (1638 Edinburgh)
terrors (1675, 1769 Oxford, SRB) [1769 Cambridge, DKJB]


That first Oxford edition of the KJV printed in 1675 even spelled "Saviour" as "Savior" and spelled some other words with "or" ending instead of "our." A KJV edition printed in London in 1660 had some of those "or" endings intead of "our."

1 Timothy 4:10
the saviour (1769, 1787, 1792, 1795, 1798, 1804, 1821, 1828, 1829, 1835, 1838, 1840 Oxford) [1790, 1800 Cambridge] (1810 Boston)
the Savior (1675 Oxford)
the Saviour (1768 Oxford, SRB) [1769 Cambridge, DKJB]

Proverbs 22:4 [riches, honour--1602 Bishops]
riches, honour (1769, 1787, 1791, 1792, 1795, 1798, 1803, 1810, 1812, 1819, 1821, 1823, 1828 Oxford) [1769, 1773, 1778, 1790, 1795, 1800, 1822, 1824, 1833 Cambridge] {1795, 1817, 1824, 1825, 1838 London} (1851, 1858 Edinburgh) (Clarke)
riches and honour (1771, 1772, 1773, 1778, 1783 Oxford) [1743, 1747, 1756, 1760, 1765, 1767, 1768 Cambridge]
riches and honor (1675 Oxford)
riches, and honor {1660 London} (1954, 1957, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1988, 2008 ABS) (1968 Royal) (1975 Open) (1991 AMG) (LASB) (KJRLB) (EB)
riches, and honour (1762, 1768 Oxford, SRB) [1762 Cambridge, DKJB] {1747, 1760, 1763 London} (1782 Aitken)

Job 6:6 [unsavory--1602 Bishops]
unsavery {1611 London}
unsavourie (1638 Edinburgh)
unsavory (1675, 1754 Oxford) [1629, 1637 Cambridge] {1617, 1672 London} (1954, 1957, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1988, 2008 ABS) (1968 Royal) (1975 Open) (LASB) (1991 AMG) (E-R) (1833 WEB)
unsavoury (1769 Oxford, SRB) [1638, 1743, 1762, 1769 Cambridge, DKJB]