Why is it so bad when you call a christian a fool?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, Dec 26, 2006.

  1. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

    I don't understand this. Does this mean that if I argue with a christian and call him fool then I'm in the danger of hell but if I call him idiot or dirtbag or something else then I'm not in the danger of hell?
    What does this even mean? Does this mean that a christian who calls a brother fool goes to hell because of this? Eh? I thought that you don't go to hell because of sin but you go to hell because of rejecting Jesus and now Jesus says you go to hell when you call a brother fool? :confused:
     
  2. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,458
    Likes Received:
    0
    thats pretty funny :)

    If I call someone a fool Im in danger of hell but if I call him a dirtbag or an idiot Im ok LOL!
     
  3. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,831
    Likes Received:
    114
    This passage is not about calling other people names.

    To understand Matt. 5:22, you have to read it in the context of Matt. 5:21-26 and more specifically, Matt. 5:17-48.

    This is a part of the sermon on the mount and Jesus explaining His fulfilling of the law. He specifically speaks on several issues.

    The first one after the explanation of the fulfillment of the law is murder. Matt. 5:21 reminds them that murder is sinful. In the next verse, Matt. 5:22, Jesus enlightens them that hatred is also murder.

    He gives them three examples of hating other people.

    • anger
    • speaking to them in contemptuous words of hatred ("Raca")
    • and declaring them apostates without any proof, or in otherwords declaring that do not have a relationship with God because you hate them ("fool")
    The word, fool, in the modern English language does not mean the same thing as the original word. The original word meant declaring someone as unfit for God's kingdom with no proof. People did this out of hatred.

    This passage is not about calling people names.

    It is about searching your heart and looking for hatred for your fellow man. And if you find it, you'd better make sure that you, yourself, are right with God.

    You can't claim to love God and then turn and spew hatred at other people. It doesn't work that way.

    That's what Jesus is saying.
     
  4. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    0
    Very enlightening, thanks! :thumbsup:

    But where is the normal christian supposed to know all these things when he's reading the bible? You can easily get a wrong impression and think that it's all about the word fool.
     
  5. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,831
    Likes Received:
    114
    Ha! We are all pretty normal, don't you think.....

    Well, I was taught as a child that the word "fool" was evil. When I was growing up, children would get punished for saying the word and people would gasp if the word was said in mixed company.

    I was taught many things as a child that I have since found to be incorrect teachings. So have many of the adults my own age. Then again, there is much more that I was taught as a child that I still believe to be infallible truths.

    There is a difference between reading the bible and studying it. Find a good study bible, but be wary that the opinions in the margins are just that....opinions.

    A bible with a good concordance (cross-references to other scripture) is good. As Helen says, scripture is best explained by other scripture.

    There are on-line commentaries such as Clarke and Matthew Henry. And then there are useful bible study tools such as biblegateway.com.

    When all else fails, come to the BB! :laugh:


     
  6. DQuixote

    DQuixote
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2006
    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    0
    I should think one would survey the scriptures associated with this doctrine, review the commentaries, et cetera, rather than simply read a few verses, question them, reach some fuzzy conclusions, then toss them out for comments. Sir, xdisciplex, after an initial prayer, apply the following to all your study times (be careful. Do not make void the words of our Lord in answering --- your interpretation is not being called upon, rather His. We seek the Divine answer, not our own):

    (1) What "judgment" does Jesus have in mind as in verse Matthew 5:22?
    (2) What type of anger is involved?
    (3) Why is He so demanding on the subject of anger?
    (4) How serious was He? Today we would use words like "knothead", "fruitcake", "basket case" in interpreting "Raca". Someone whose "elevator doesn't go all the way to the top". Is He simply saying "don't say bad things"?
    (5) Have you ever been tempted to damn someone to hell because of his or her actions or attitude toward you, synonymous with "thou fool!"?

    Think about the progression in animosity as given in 5:22:

    (1) Anger,
    (2) Contempt,
    (3) Condemnation.

    Here is a prayer you can pray, following your study:

    "Holy Spirit of God—by Thy Divine fire, burn out the dross in my nature. I do want to love as our Lord did. Enable me to love my neighbor as myself. Deliver me from the bondage of ill-will. Remove all the grudges I hold. Father, you hold no grudge against me! Let it be so in my encounters with others!"
     
  7. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    44,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    Because God said so...
     
  8. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,458
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is something I have always wondered about on this subject..

    First of all, in Proverbs it calls people fools all the time. Here is one example that seems contradictory at least at first glance:

    Prov:26:4: Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
    Prov:26:5: Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.


    But my question is, how can we follow this counsel on how to treat a fool if we arent supposed to think anybody is a fool?


    Claudia
     
  9. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    XDX, How about actually being involved in the questions you ask? You throw out a question and then just disappear until you throw out the next question. Are you learning anything from the responses?
     
  10. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    44,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amy: I have wondered about that too. Perhaps he is a new Christian seeking answers OR someone who already knows the answers and wants to see if anyone else does? :tonofbricks:
     
  11. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,831
    Likes Received:
    114
    Claudia, here is an excellent answer to your question. I encourage you and everyone else reading through this thread to read it.

    http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/read/answering_the_fool


    Jesus didn't say that we aren't supposed to be aware that some people are fools. And according to the bible, a "fool" is a person who has said in his heart that there is no God. We see people all of the time who declare themselves as atheists, who oppose chrisitian values, and who persecute the church.

    He said that we aren't, out of a spirit of hatred towards as person, to judge them as someone who is spiritually dead and having no relationship with God simply because we don't like them.
     
  12. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,458
    Likes Received:
    0
    Scarlett

    that was a good article, I just read it, thank you for sharing it...


    The one that says not to answer the fool lest you become like him reminds me of a saying that goes kinda like this: "Dont argue with a fool because after awhile it becomes hard to tell which one of you is the fool"

    Claudia
     
  13. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,831
    Likes Received:
    114
    Here's my absolute favorite by the great educator, Harry Wong.

    "It takes one fool to smart off. It takes two fools to make a conversation out of it."
     
  14. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,447
    Likes Received:
    0
    I believe he is one of two things. Either a very disturbed individual or a troll. In either case he needs the Lord..........

    He also cares not a whit for responses, as his continuing postings indicate no growth.
     
  15. bound

    bound
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    Messages:
    664
    Likes Received:
    0
    I just wanted to say that I think you are just wonderful Scarlett O. and God continue to bless you and your family!
     
  16. dispen4ever

    dispen4ever
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    264
    Likes Received:
    0
    xdx does not already know the answers. When an issue pops into his head, he chases the answer endlessly, finally coming here with solutions that are shaky at best, while still longing for peace in a simple answer. He has mental limitations which are very difficult to overcome, and will remain so, until he allows the medical community to help him. hillclimber, I would not refer to him as "disturbed," since he is still able to function in the community, albeit with difficulty.

    His posts range from strange to brilliant, reflecting the level of difficulty he is having on a given day. He has been told, publicly and privately, that he needs to listen to his psychiatrist. He can't continue to struggle like this without help.

    xdx, with regard to your questions, I would suggest that you carefully consider information from Scarlett and Amy and Hillclimber. They seek to be helpful. Rather than being supportive of your limitations, we need to direct you toward someone who can help. You already know who that doctor is. First get the mental under control. An entirely new world will open up for you if you will do that.

    With regard to your Matthew 5:22 question(s), Jesus was speaking to Jews about the Kingdom. We are Gentile Christians, living in the Church Age. In the future Kingdom promised to the Jews, the Millennium, with Christ on the Throne, it will be possible to live up to the demands of the Sermon on the Mount.

    The Sermon on the Mount is not a prerequisite for salvation in Christ Jesus today. We are saved by Grace through Faith, and that not of ourselves. It is not of works. Guarded speech will not save you. Guarded speech comes after salvation, as evidence of the born-again experience. You cannot lose your salvation based upon an unguarded moment of foul language or speech that belittles another. When that happens, run to 1 John 1:9 to seek the restoration of fellowship with your Savior. Your salvation, your eternal security, was never in jeopardy.

    Do we ignore the Sermon on the Mount today? Of course not. In it we see the quality of life that we, as Christians, can experience right now, today, in an utterly surrended life. Difficult? Yes. Worthwhile? Yes, and Amen! Speak God's words, think His thoughts, do His will, accomplish His purpose, a glorious challenge for the born-again Believer. It is a spiritual matter, not one of the flesh. This will be THE ethic during the Kingdom Age, the Millennium. Go for it today!

    :thumbs:
     
    #16 dispen4ever, Dec 27, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2006
  17. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,831
    Likes Received:
    114
    :laugh: !! You just haven't gotten to know me. Thank you for your kind words.

    God bless you and yours, too.

    It's all about.......:jesus:
     
  18. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    0
    Very nice of you... tell me who taught you to read people's minds?


    I think that Scarlett's explanation makes the most sense.

    Good questions but I don't have an answer. If I could simply answer these questions then I also wouldn't have needed to ask in the first place.

    @ dispen4ever

    Are you saying that all the stuff which Jesus talked about to the jews is meaningless for us? Then why should Jesus even have taken time to explain them things which would soon (after his death & resurrection) be obsolete? This is like explaining somebody how to use Windows XP when Windows Vista is soon coming out. Why not directly explain the new things?
    I don't know. I'm afraid that with this argument "Jesus was talking to jews but we are christians" you can do away with most of the stuff which Jesus said and still feel good.
     
    #18 xdisciplex, Dec 29, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2006
  19. EdSutton

    EdSutton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    8,755
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not all that complex a question, huh??

    Ed
     
  20. EdSutton

    EdSutton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    8,755
    Likes Received:
    0
    Scarlett_O wrote:

    Well put, Scarlett, as to context!

    I once heard this statement, which made sense then, and still years later, makes as much sense, as ever.

    "A text out of context is a pretext to a proof-text!"

    I agree, fully.

    Ed
     

Share This Page

Loading...