Why is the Bible true?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Mauricio, Jan 7, 2003.

  1. Mauricio

    Mauricio
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    One of the most difficult questions for me is the question WHY the bible as we have it Gods holy and infallible Word is.

    I believe this and defend this, but sometimes I ask myself the question: on WHAT do I base that? the Bible itself does not even claim that it is infallible.

    Why do we believe the Bible is Gods holy and infallible Word?
     
  2. David Cooke Jr

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    Fear. Alot of people need for it to be literally true in all respects (even when it contradicts itself), otherwise doubt creeps in and they don't know what to believe. That is not true for everyone but it is for many.
    But the central themes of the Bible: Love, forgiveness, justice, kindness, and mercy, are true simply because they are. God loves us. We ought to love God, and love our neighbor as ourselves, not just because God said so, but because it is the TRUE way.

    [ January 07, 2003, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: David Cooke, Jr. ]
     
  3. Mauricio

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    Hello David,

    In other words, your answer is: the Bible is not infallible?
     
  4. Caretaker

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    My faith is based upon the resurrection, for it is the empty tomb, which is the pivotal point differentiating the Christian from all other religions, and establishes the credibility of the Word of God.

    1) The resurrection was foretold by Jesus Christ. Matthew writes, “From that time Jesus Christ began to show His disciples that he must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed and raised up on the third day”(Matt. 16:21) Though his followers did not understand what He was telling them at the time, they remembered and recorded His words.

    2) The resurrection is the only reasonable explanation for the empty tomb. If Jesus had been only wounded he could not have removed the stone or gotten past the soldiers, likewise his disciples could not have gotten by either. His enemies would not have taken the body for it would have only encouraged belief in the resurrection.

    3) The resurrection is the only reasonable explanation for the appearances of Jesus to His disciples. There were at least ten different occasions, and even eating and allowing them to touch him.

    4) The resurrection is the only reason for the beginning of the Christian church. This was the foundation upon which the church was founded, and the primary subject of the first sermons.

    5) The resurrection is the only reasonable explanation for the transformed lives of the disciples. They deserted Jesus during His trial and crucifixion. They remained in hiding, and it was only after the resurrection that they emerged. These same sheep hiding in the darkness emerged with power and boldness, in the very presence of their enemies, to turn the world upside down. Where once they had cowered in fear and confusion, and Peter had made his denial three times, they now endured horrid persecution and death, with faith unshaken. The transformation in the life of Paul, can only be reasonably explained by the resurrection. For he was the lead persecutor of the early church. After meeting the resurrected Lord upon the Damascus road, Paul was transformed, and he went forth boldly proclaiming the faith, even unto a martyrs death.

    6) Lastly I offer into evidence the transforming power of the resurrection, in the lives of countless millions through the centuries, who have received Christ. Each of us gives evidence in our testimony to the resurrection power of Jesus of Nazareth, to break the bonds of sin, and produce peace and righteousness in our lives.

    A servant of Christ,
    Drew
     
  5. Daniel David

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    Actually, Jesus, Paul, Peter, and John all affirmed inerrancy.

    The Scripture does claim to be God's word.

    There are many that want the Bible to have errors and to contradict itself, but they have selfish motives. They desire to have a less than perfect God so that they can ignore holiness and justice. Your view of inerrancy determines your view of God.

    There is not a single "contradiction" that cannot be satisfactorily answered. In fact, you will find that they are forced to begin with.
     
  6. stubbornkelly

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    Okay, but in order to use Scripture as evidentiary support, you have to believe in its truth in the first place, which is circular reasoning. Q: Why do you believe the Bible? A: Because it says to. That doesn't work.

    This is a big question for me, too. I believe it to be true, but I don't know. Does that make any sense?

    Until I can answer this question for myself (hopefully with a little push in the right direction), my faith flounders a bit.

    What is it that makes us believe?
     
  7. Mauricio

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    I agree that a lot of so called contradictions are forced and can be satisfactorily answered. (although there are some that are very difficult to answer satisfactorily without bringing in copyist-add-ins).

    However, Jesus, Peter, Paul did claim inerrancy of the Scriptures, which was the Old Testament. They do not say anything about the New Testament (ofcourse: it was being created) The only book that claims to be infallible is Revelations. Where for example 2tim3:15 says that all the Scripture has been inspired by God (in my own words) it is obvious that Paul is talking about the Scripture that were accepted as Scripture by the Jews, our Old Testament.

    The answer might be as simple as: you just have to BELIEVE that the Bible is Gods complete and infallible Word, but the trick is that the Bible itselfs does not seem to demand me to believe the complete sequence of New Testamentic books.
     
  8. Daniel David

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    The only way sinful people could know God is if he chose to reveal himself. Our heart and deceitful and seek to establish our own gods.

    Christ came and revealed the Father perfectly. Christ himself said the Scripture was true. He even told the Sadduccees that their problem was with Scripture and not him.

    So, I can work backwards.

    Christ rose from the dead.
    Christ claimed to be God in the flesh.
    Christ said the Scripture was inerrant.

    His resurrection validates everything he ever said and did.
     
  9. stubbornkelly

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    Legitimate question: How to prove the resurrection extra-Biblically? Or are you saying that's unnecssary?

    Another question - how did God reveal Himself to you?

    I have a point to that last question, but I'd like to hear the answer first, as it may be moot. [​IMG]
     
  10. Mauricio

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    Ok, I agree with that too, but now the step to the letters of Paul?
     
  11. Daniel David

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    Actually, I think it goes beyond that. You see, 2 Timothy was the last letter Paul wrote. James had already been written. All of Paul's other writings were written. Matthew and Mark and probably Luke were written. Acts could have been written. Peter said that Paul's writings were Scripture. Therefore, you have almost all of the N.T. just by that one verse.

    You also have John saying in Revelation that he is the author. Then, he proceeds to say, "Hear what the SPIRIT says to the church in..." At the end of Revelation, John says that no man can add to this BOOK . At the beginning of Revelation, he says he is writing a letter. John knew he was finalizing the Scriptures.
     
  12. Daniel David

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    1. Empty tomb. No one has ever been able to produce his body. If they could, Christianity would have never existed. If the people in the first century could not prove that his body was stolen or was still in the tomb, that is a pretty good case.

    The changed lives of 11 fearful men into men who turned the world upside down.

    Those are just two reasons.

    2. Through the word of God. It is impossible to know God except through the word. People may know about him in some way (Rom. 1), but they can only know the one true God from his word. Remember, even though God walked the earth, he kept telling people to read about him in the word.

    3. I suspect your point might have something to do with Moses and the burning bush. No Scripture existed, anywhere. We now have the Scripture. So, I guess if you lived prior to Moses, you might have a case for God revealing himself apart from his word. Hebrews 1:1-3 argues that God does not do that anymore.
     
  13. stubbornkelly

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    No, and I'm not trying to make arguments, even. (Go figure!) I would have made the Hebrews argument against alternate revelation, had you not. It's just that when you spoke of God revealing Himself, I admit I got a little kerfluggled by what I inferred. So we're on the same page about Scriptural revelation, then?

    I guess that's what I can't reconcile. Go back to my earlier post on circular logic. I have to believe it in order to believe it, which doesn't follow.

    Similarly, one has to believe Jesus existed, was crucified, and that the Bible is an accurate account of both in order to believe in the Resurrection at all, which, again, requires original Biblical belief, which seems to require something extra-Biblical to not fall into the circle of illogic. Empty tomb evidence means little without that original belief in the Bible as the true word of God.

    Or am I missing something critical and can't see it?
     
  14. Daniel David

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    stubbornkelly, I don't think you are missing anything. Consider this though, our God is supernatural. Since that is true, he cannot be figured out nor can simple rational arguments prove finally his supernatural qualities.

    God has revealed himself through nature enough to tell us he is supremely powerful and supremely intelligent. It isn't really a jump to say he might reveal himself personally also. He did through Jesus Christ, the incomparable God.
     
  15. Pastor Larry

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    Because it is the revelation of God who cannot lie.
     
  16. Mauricio

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    THAT is a good argument!

    If the Bible is Gods Revelation, than it should be infallible, while God is perfect.

    On the other hand is it easy enough to say: God reveals Himself in the Bible, through human fallible writings.

    But I like this argument.

    Thanks Pastor Larry.
     
  17. Johnv

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    On another post, I brought up the words "infallible" and "inerrant". My point was that a great deal depends on what we mean by them.

    I of course take the Bible to be the inspired word of God. But I also know that the bible I've got on my desk is not the dictated word of God:

    It's in English. I don't consider translations to be equal to the original.
    The text that is was translated from were not originals. I accept the possibility that some text that the translators used are not exactly as the original text was.
    The NT is probably not written in the language that the words were spoken in. The generally accepted language of the Jews of Jesus' time was Aramaic, though they also would have known Hebrew and Greek. I accept the possibility that, just as there are differences in translating from Greek to English, there are also differences in translating from Aramaic to Greek.
     
  18. mountainrun

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    The Bible is the Word of God as recorded by men who conclusively proved that they were speaking for God by the evidence of the fulfilled prophecies they gave and the miracles they performed.
    If you saw a man raise the dead and heal the blind, you would have known that he was speaking for God.
    What they wrote was accepted as the word of God by the people who knew them to be the real thing.
    The evidence is conclusive that the record of their writings has been accurately passed down to us.

    MR
     
  19. Ulsterman

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    Here are some of the reasons I believe the Bible is God's Word;

    1. Because of its Amazing Unity - Written over 1600 year time span by 40 different writers w/various backgrounds, occupations and nationalities. That the Bible coming to us the way it does maintains itself as one coherent unit, indicates to us that there were forty writers, but only one Author, one Mind behind its precepts, it is the Word of God.

    2. Because of Its Indestructibility - Jesus said “The scripture cannot be broken.” (John 10:35). People have try to ban it, banish it and burn it, but it continues as the world’s No. 1 best seller.

    3. Because of Its Scientific Accuracy. - The fact that it records the earth to be round and spherical before men understood that (Isa 40:22; Job 26:7). The fact that it pointed to the infinity of the stars when men thought they could be numbered (Jer 33:22). The fact that there are channels and canyons under the sea, ever before man could test that (2 Sam 22:16). The fact of the sea lanes motivating the father of oceanography, Matthew Fountaine Maury, to find them. The fact that blood is the human life stream (Leviticus 17:11) etc. Who told Isaiah the earth was round? Or Job that it hung in space. Was David a sailor w/ access to sonar equipment or submarines so that he would know the secrets of the seas? Did Jeremiah have a telescope at his disposal or satellites which could prove his theory? Only God could have known theseihen e island part of the city. things at the time of writing.

    4. Because of Its Prophetical Accuracy. Space limits examples, but for one consider Ezekiel 26:1-7 & 14. In 590 BC Ezekiel prophesied four events;
    (1) The city of Tyre would be captured by the Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar. (Vs 7)
    (2) Other nations would contribute to her downfall at later stages (vs 3).
    (3) The city would be scraped down to its bare rock, it would become a place where fishermen would dry their nets &
    (4) The city would never be rebuilt (vs 14)
    Then Zechariah the prophet added to Ezekiel’s prophecy in 518 BC w/ these words:
    (1) “And Tyrus did build herself a strong hold, and heaped up silver as the dust, and fine gold as the mire of the streets. Behold, the Lord will cast her out, and he will smite her power in the sea; and she shall be devoured with fire.” (Zechariah 9:3-4).
    Were these prophecies fulfilled? To the letter. Tyre was actually two cities, one on the coastline, 60 miles NW of Jerusalem, the other 1/2 mile out in Mediterranean Sea. Four yrs after Ezekiel’s prophecy king Nebuchadnezzar & the Babylonians besieged Tyre, the siege lasted 13 yrs and in 573 BC, Tyre fell, the coastal city was destroyed, but king Nebuchadnezzar could not capture the island part of the city. For the next 241 yrs the island city dwelt in safety. Then in 332 BC Alexander the great came by Tyre, and taking the debris from the old coastal city he made a causeway out to the island city, in so doing he lit. scraped the coastline down to the rock. After 7 months he took the island city & destroyed it. From that day to this the surrounding coastal area has been used by local fishermen to spread their nets. Tyre has never been rebuilt.

    By no means are these all the arguments, but they are good arguments in my view.
     
  20. Refreshed

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    It doesn't seem like any of the good questions were satisfactorily answered in this post. The original question, "Why is the Bible true," is very difficult to answer.

    If we say the Bible is true because it makes claims of being true, this is not good logic as anyone can claim to be anything.

    If we say that the Bible is true because it is verified from outside sources such as science, reason, logic, etc. then we place these things in higher authority than the Bible itself.

    What is the resolution to this?

    Jason
     

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