Why is the Pre-Tribulation rapture popular and does it have a future?...

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by TipofTheTongueTheology, Nov 24, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. TipofTheTongueTheology

    TipofTheTongueTheology
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2013
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have my own reasons but I want to hear other people's opinions as to why it is popular and if they think it will last into the future as a popular doctrine of the church.

    Todd :type:
    http://tipofthetonguetheology.blogspot.com/
     
  2. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    10,468
    Likes Received:
    138
    Me THINKS....

    ....it is popular because a lot of Scriptures seem to point to it!

    It is also popular because I'm sure most of us would rather not have to face persecution for our faith!

    Finally, it will be popular as long as it happens to be true. If we do not go before the tribulation, the pre-tribs will be wondering what happened, and looking for answers as to how they can deal with the coming persecution!

    I happen to believe in a mid-trib.

    However, like my one theology professor used to claim, "I am a "Pan-tribulationist." Meaning that everything will "Pan out in the end!"

    This goes for the millennium. I am a pan-millennialist...:thumbsup:
     
  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    18,963
    Likes Received:
    97
    Wow...that's my stance:thumbsup:
     
  4. Bro. James

    Bro. James
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,648
    Likes Received:
    16
    Popular? Beware of that which is popular--it is usually conformed to the world.

    The New Testament churches have been persecuted in every generation since Jesus went to prepare a place for them. "Ye shall be witnesses of Me in Judea, in Samaria and unto the uttermost parts of the earth." Witness=martyr. Most of us have no idea how the gates of hell have tried to destroy the Bride.

    Persecution is not on the radar of most religious comfort zones. "They that live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution". We have not a clue about persecution for the cause of Christ.

    Our perception of time is a bit skewed. "A thousand years is a day and day is a thousand years" in God's. This puts us in the last minutes of the sixth day since the creation.

    If the blood of the lamb is on our doorposts, we need not worry about whatever is coming down. Jesus has keep His promise of preserving His Bride even through martyrdom. He is faithful even when we are not.

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
  5. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,581
    Likes Received:
    26
    I believe Satan has used different tactics against the church from the very beginning. He once persecuted the church unto death but it backfired in his face. I think he has learned from that and has moved on to other tactics like inducing false doctrine into the church, and easy believism, sowing large amount of tares among the wheat ect. The local churches are being filled with professing tares and true born again Christians are being persecuted from within the local churches. There is tribulation to the saint on a regular basis from his own flesh, Satan and the world. I do not believe there will be a world wide tribulation by Satan to the church. The rapture theory became popular in the 19th century.
     
  6. thisnumbersdisconnected

    thisnumbersdisconnected
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    8,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    And mine. Trying to make it appear a lie simply because it is "popular" is a tactic often used by Satan himself.

    Well said, James, but totally inapplicable to the Rapture. There is persecution of the church throughout history, no doubt. But the Rapture isn't about persecution. It is about the judgment of the world, and God's promise, also throughout history, that His church would not be subject to judgment. He never promised we wouldn't be persecuted. But He most assuredly said we will not be judged, not to eligibility for eternal life. That is what the Rapture gives us grace to escape from.
     
  7. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    At times during the past 2000 years different "issues" or "doctrines" have become the forefront of battle for proper interpretation. We scratch our heads and wonder how they could have never "understood" truth in that area.

    In AD 300 the battle was over canonical v non-canonical writing. Finally they got it right

    In AD 1500 it was over the doctrines of grace (the Gospel organized in what today we call Calvinism) v pelagian Catholicism. Finally they got it right.

    In AD 1850 it was over the second coming with so many wandering in a-mill error and cultic groups springing up. Finally they got it right.

    Why didn't the church get it all right in AD 35? For some issues, it took centuries. For others it was not until there was a great conflict that learned saints focused on "xyz" doctrine.

    I am thankful to live in the era today when I can stand on the shoulders of giants and not wallow in centuries of misunderstanding or error.
     
  8. HAMel

    HAMel
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,048
    Likes Received:
    83
    Why, in real time, would our Lord and Savior even want us to go through any Tribulation (as described) to begin with?

    Would any of us want to deliberately cause harm to any of our Children?
     
  9. Jacob_Elliott

    Jacob_Elliott
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2013
    Messages:
    257
    Likes Received:
    0
    4 In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons?
    “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,
    nor be weary when reproved by him.
    6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
    and chastises every son whom he receives.”
    7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. 11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
    1 Thes 3:3 (TEB) ... None of you should turn back because of these persecutions. You yourselves know that such persecutions are part of God's will for us.
    Acts 14:22 (Jer) ... "We all have to experience many hardships," they said, "before we enter the kingdom of God."
    James 1:12 (NIV) Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the victor's crown, the life God has promised to those who love him.
    1 Pet 4:12-13 (NIV) Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed.
    Deut 8:2-3 (NIV) Remember how the Lord your God led you all the way in the desert these forty years, to humble you and to test you in order to know what was in your heart, whether or not you would keep his commands. He humbled you... to teach you that man does not live by bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord.
    Gen 22:1-2 (NIV) Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, "Abraham!" "Here I am," he replied. Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, [what about Isaac's older brother, Ishmael? See Rom 9:8, Gal 4:22-31, John 6:63] whom you love, and... sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about."
    Ex 20:20 (NIV) Moses said to the people, "Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning."
    Ps 66:8-12 (NIV) Praise our God, O peoples, let the sound of his praise be heard; he has preserved our lives and kept our feet from slipping. For you, O God, tested us; you refined us like silver. You brought us into prison and laid burdens on our backs. You let men ride over our heads; we went through fire and water, but you brought us to a place of abundance.
    1 Pet 2:19-23 (Phi) A man does a fine thing when he endures pain, with a clear conscience towards God, though he knows he is suffering unjustly. After all, it is no credit to you if you are patient in bearing a punishment which you have richly deserved! But if you do your duty and are punished for it and can still accept it patiently, you are doing something worthwhile in God's sight. Indeed this is your calling. For Christ suffered for you and left you a personal example, so that you might follow in his footsteps. He was guilty of no sin... Yet when he was insulted he offered no insult in return. When he suffered he made no threats of revenge. He simply committed his cause to the One who judges fairly.
    John 15:18-20 (NIV) "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own... Remember the words I spoke to you; 'No servant is greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also."
    1 Pet 4:1 (NIV) Since Christ suffered physical pain you must arm yourselves with the same inner conviction that he had. To be free from sin means bodily suffering, and the man who accepts this will spend the rest of his time here on earth, not in being led by human desires, but in doing the will of God.
    2 Tim 3:12 (NIV) In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
    John 16:2-4 (NIV) "... In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is doing a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. I have told you this, so that when the time comes you will remember that I warned you..."
    1 Thes 3:3 (NIV) so that no one would be unsettled by these trials. You know that we were destined for them.
    2 Tim 3:12 (Phi) Persecution is inevitable for those who are determined to live really Christian lives.
    1 Pet 1:6-7 (Phi) This means tremendous joy to you, even though at present you may be temporarily harassed by all kinds of trials. This is no accident--it happens to prove your faith, which is infinitely more valuable than gold, and gold, as you know, even though it is ultimately perishable, must be purified by fire.
    James 1:2-4 (Phi) When all kinds of trials and temptations crowd into your lives, don't resent them as intruders, but welcome them as friends! Realize that they come to test your faith and to produce in you the quality of endurance.
    2 Tim 1:8 (Phi) ... Accept your share of the hardship that faithfulness to the gospel entails in the strength that God gives you.




    Trails, tribulation and persecution happen because God is our Father and he loves us therefore he must chastise, challenge, and discipline us.
     
  10. thisnumbersdisconnected

    thisnumbersdisconnected
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    8,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jacob, you have it wrong also. Those verses deal with God's chastisement, and with His love and protection from the world. He brings the judgment Himself, and it is not chastisement, it is judgment of the unsaved. Yes, God protects us from evil. He is not evil. He is just, and that means He will not require us to go through His judgment.
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,132
    Likes Received:
    52
    It fits best the biblical informatin regarding the timing aspects of the Second Coming, and that assumes though that one is using the principle of seeing the prophetic in a literal method way, not as spiritual/allogorical!

    IF viewing it in a literal fashion, does make sense of isreal still having time of their troubles, purpose of Great tribulation, why Church spared from that wrath etc!
     
  12. Jacob_Elliott

    Jacob_Elliott
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2013
    Messages:
    257
    Likes Received:
    0
    Number you are mistaken, I realize what those verses are referring to, that is why I chose them. I neither stated my position on the tribulation nor tried to defend it. I was answering a question posed by Hambel which was something to the effect of "why would a father want to harm his child?". It isn't that the father wants to harm the child but he sometimes must do so to teach it, "spare not the rod". So in conclusion I have not given my position on the tribulation and those verses were not in reference to it.
     
  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,386
    Likes Received:
    790
    I am trying to figure out why its "future" would even be questioned.
     
  14. HAMel

    HAMel
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,048
    Likes Received:
    83
    Some, it does appear, go out of their way to make things to hard.
     
  15. Bro. James

    Bro. James
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,648
    Likes Received:
    16
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This chronology of getting it right suggests the doctrines vested in the New Testament Church(Mt. 28:20) have somehow evolved over the past 1900 years. The landmarks suggest Rome and Wittenburg are vital links in the history of Jude 3, when they are not. True New Testament churches have never been a part of Rome, nor the reformations of Rome.

    What makes Joseph Smith Jr. right or wrong?

    Jesus promised to never leave nor forsake His Bride. He has given us His Word and The Spirit, The Holy, indwelling Testament Churches, leading in all Truth since the Day of Pentecost, even through the gates of hell.

    He has keep His promise.

    Scripture says He is coming for those who are looking for His appearing.

    Apparently, many are not looking up. However, many are looking for earth destroying asteroids.

    Rapture is the next event.

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
    #15 Bro. James, Nov 26, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,132
    Likes Received:
    52
    maybe somethinks that full on pretierism is the view to be held?
     
  17. thisnumbersdisconnected

    thisnumbersdisconnected
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    8,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    There are also those who think it is a heretical teaching. They, of course, are incorrect.
     
  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,381
    Likes Received:
    728
    The pre tribulation theory is popular today...not so much because of bible study.It is popular because it has caught on ...like a fad....

    So people wander into bible churches teaching this idea as if it alone is the biblical position. they mostly have not studied the bible for themselves...so they have a blind faith in the pastor and what he offers.
     
  19. thisnumbersdisconnected

    thisnumbersdisconnected
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    8,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is so wrong on so many levels I cannot begin to address them all. I will simply say in response to this haughty comment ...

    ... that I have studied for myself, in depth, and it is the only logical conclusion that I fiind can be reached from proper exegesis of God's word. Feel free to believe it is not, it does not affect your salvation and, as to that truth, should not be a cause of division among brothers and sisters in Christ.
     
  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,381
    Likes Received:
    728
    tndc,

    I know that some people study this position and hold to it.The OP spoke of why it is popular. What i posted is based on what i see and hear in conversation with christians.

    How did you come to this position? Did you know of any other position? In other words...were you in an amillenial church and from personal study you "saw " this pretrib on your own???
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...