Why is there evil in the world?

I've been debating this subject for years on the board. I'm hardly a drive by poster.


There comes a point when all I know to do is bang my head...and then I get out of the debate.

 

Own evil desires

God gives us over to our own evil desire, these desires did not come from Him, the Father of light. God does use the evil desires of man for the good of those who love Him. To know it was going to happen doesn't mean He orchestrate, but used it for the good of those who love Him. They did this not by God comand, but by their own evil desire. I believe that God gave free will on only His choice to believe and be saved or not and be condemned; Is for there never to be another satan in heaven, but those who disobey Him( not to trust Him) to be placed where they belong.

 

Why

God has created man from the beginning with two coices to believe in Him and be saved or not and be condemned. God has no favorite when it comes to His judgement on this all men have this same choice

All men have this and we are His messengers of it.

Who are we to question God why has made the pots in this way, all you have is assumption of why God has done what He has done. I want one scripture of a command from God for one to sin and disobey Him then you have something to stand on, but what you represent is sinking sand.

The only thing men have set before them is to believe and be saved or not and be condemned.

 

Own desire

Do you have a clue of God given men over to their own desire is?

 

In order for God to orchestrated it has to be commanded if it is not it is men doing their own desires not what God wanted them to do to orchestrated what you believe. Your question can only be answered by assumptions

 

Two roads

You are either going down two roads a road God commanded you or your own evil desire, it is you that is trying to make the roads the same. One leads to destruction the other to life

 

Answer your question

To answer your question is to say men our doing God's desire not their own evil desires, so they don't come into play the way you want it. God hasn't commanded anyone to do their own evil desire, but believe(trust) Him

 

Answer again

God is using men's own evil desire that He foreknow to bring salvation to those who love Him, you don't accept it though.

 

Luke wrote:

Agreed. God did know man would sin and provided a Saviour for all men. God also knew who would believe and elected them.

I disagree for two reasons. If man could not sin, man would be perfectly holy and equal to God. This cannot be. God cannot sin. Adam and Eve were good, but they had the ability to sin and did. Adam and Eve (or any created being such as angels) cannot be equal to God.

The second reason is love requires choice. In order to truly love someone you must have the choice and option of not loving them.

Agreed, which refutes Unconditional Election. God must elect man for some reason.

Not so, God showed great grace and love to Adam and Eve. He created them good and without sin, he placed them in a magnificant garden and provided everything they would ever need to live.

Well, strictly speaking, yes, mercy cannot be shown unless God provides forgiveness for sin. However, God did show love and kindness to man without sin.

Saying sin was necessary for sinners to exist is circular reasoning.

Agreed, but you must include the resurrection with that.

Agreed, but a form of circular reasoning.

God could not create anything as perfect as himself. He cannot create himself. Anything he would create must be inferior to him. God cannot deny his love when he creates living beings, so must give them free will and choice. This free will must give a living being the choice to do good or evil. God knew that man would exercise his free will and sin and provided a Saviour for man.

The problem with Calvinism is that it puts God in a straightjacket saying God must perform a certain way. It allows no flexibility in God's actions or decisions. But man can and does adapt to changing situations, is man greater than God?

God did not create man to be evil, but God knowing man would do evil provided a way of salvation for man through his Son Jesus.

I have used the argument of our automobiles. Does Ford build cars that it knows can exceed known speed limits? Yes.

Does that make Ford Motor Company responsible when you get pulled over for driving 80 MPH on the highway? No.

 

You are wrong. You have been corrected. :tongue3:
I'm not stumped, just tired of repeating myself. There comes a time for my own sake and the sake of others that I need to back off.

I have answered repeatedly. See above.

Of course it is. I totally agree. God allowing men to choose between good and evil does not negate His sovereignty.

I'm not sure what you mean, but death is the consequence of sin. God said so..He's sovereign you know.

 

This would be true if man did not have free will and choice. If man does not have free will and choice, then he is nothing but a controlled, programmed robot following commands. If this were the case God would indeed be responsible for sin.

Free will puts you in control of your own actions and makes you responsible. If God tells you not to bear false witness (which he does), and you choose to tell a lie, you are responsible.

Your automobile was designed to exceed posted speed limits. A car must be able to exceed the posted limit in order to "cruise" at the speed limit. Man is the same, man must have the ability to choose in order to have the ability to love. There is no such thing as love without choice.

The company who manufactured your automobile is completely aware that it can exceed all posted limits. This does not make them responsible if you choose of your own free will to disregard the law and speed. It is the same with God, just because he gave us the ability to choose between good and evil does not make him responsible if you choose to do evil.

It is a very wicked doctrine that makes God responsible for man's decision to sin.

 

A big AMEN. :jesus:

Geneisis 1:4 And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

No where, that I have found, in the Bible is darkness ever called good.

 

The problem with Calvinism is that it puts God in a straightjacket saying God must perform a certain way. It allows no flexibility in God's actions or decision

Not a problem........

If man does not have free will and choice, then he is nothing but a controlled, programmed robot following commands. If this were the case God would indeed be responsible for sin.

Man is fully resonsible,yet his will is bound by his fallen dead sin nature

Jesus spoke about it [even before Calvin read this verse].....here in Jn8

 

The straightjacket comes from other systems of theology. They essentially hogtie a sovereign God into obeying man.

Calvinism, under God's permissive will, gives man a relative freedom. The onlylaw is, "Thus far and no further."

Cheers,

Jim

 

Well, the scriptures show God changing his mind several times.

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

If God intended man to sin as some have said here, then why was God grieved in his heart at man's wickedness? And if God can never change his mind, why do the scriptures say he repented that he had made man?

There are other examples.

2 Kings 20:1 In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And the prophet Isaiah the son of Amoz came to him, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Set thine house in order; for thou shalt die, and not live.

2 Kings 20:6 And I will add unto thy days fifteen years; and I will deliver thee and this city out of the hand of the king of Assyria; and I will defend this city for mine own sake, and for my servant David's sake.

God told Hezekiah to set his house in order because he would die. But after Hezekiah prayed to God, God decided to heal him and gave him fifteen more years to live.

1 Sam 15:35 And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.

God was not happy when the Jews wanted to make Saul king, nevertheless he gave Samuel permission to annoint him king (1 Samuel 8:22). Now we see that God repented that he made Saul king.

You can insist God cannot change his mind, the scriptures show God changing his mind several times.

God did not intend man to be evil, otherwise he would not have been grieved in his heart at man's wickedness. If God intended man to sin, then there would be no such thing as sin. How can you be sinning when you are obeying the Lord?