why many religious people will go to hell

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by massdak, Aug 24, 2004.

  1. massdak

    massdak
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    because they do not believe how God created the world, they believe that evolution was used by God to form man and that death came before sin entered the world.

    because they believe they can add homosexuality to the Christian name calling them Christian homosexuals or homosexual Christians, as if a sin could be joined to the Christian, as if it is acceptable in Gods eyes. can a Christian be called a Christian murder or other sinful way? a true Christian will not add his sin to Christ as a badge of honor.

    1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,


    because they believe salvation is a decision made, or an event they professed that decisioned them into the kingdom. those who believe saving faith is not from God.

    Hbr 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
     
  2. Artimaeus

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    Religion is man's attempt to reach God. Christianity is God's attempt to reach man. His way works. [​IMG]
     
  3. SimplyBee

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    Ah, yes... the exclusivity of homosexuality and Christianity.

    The select few of us who have grown up both have a lot to say, and no platform to say it. Shunned by the religious community for being gay and by the gay community for being religious, we sit back in silence (brought on by the shame dealt by both sides for refusal to conform) and watch the two destroy each other. There really is a desire for peace and harmony on this issue from both sides, but those in the most qualified position to facilitate and illuminate it are shunned like lunatics.

    So for what it is worth, I thought I would try to explain what a Christian who happens to be gay goes through. The fact of the matter is that I am going to be shouted at, made fun of, preached to, told I am Hellbound, legislated against, shunned, shamed, and kicked out of churches for the rest of my life. And a majority of the time it is going to be done by people using the name of the same Jesus I humbly try to serve. I am going to be told I am given over to a reprobate mind, that sin has an inexonerable grasp on my soul, that my salvation is void or nonexistent, and that, yes, the whole reason I am this way in the first place is because I haven't met the right woman. And I am going to anguish over these things, constantly having a stigma attached to me as if a tattoo on my forehead.

    And yet I am going to relentlessly search for truth over truth over justification, peace over strife, and love over hate. I am going to weep and wail over the pages of my worn little black Bible in search of its truths and meaning. I am going to pray as hard as I can, praise as hard as I can, love as much as I can, and desperately reach out to the cross because most of the time (as they say in Oklahoma) "that's all I got."

    I know that the majority if not all of you disagree with me. I don't want to even attempt to change your mind or persuade you that my opinions or beliefs are right or better than yours. Sometimes I even wonder if it is not the very differences in opinion that form the rift between us that provide the motivation for me to cling to Christ as strongly as I can in the first place. My prayer for all of us, though, is that some day we will all understand.

    I probably shouldn't post this, because I really don't see how it can not balloon into the classic homosexuality argument thread. But writing is a bit of a catharsis for me, and if nothing else I appreciate the opportunity to share. Use this as an opportunity to validate your own beliefs; that is what the Baptist Board has become for me. Most of all, pray for me. I am praying for all of you.

    Respectfully submitted,
    SimplyBee
     
  4. Paul of Eugene

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    Hello, Simply Bee, I am the other castigated Christian, the kind that accepts the findings of science.

    When I think about homosexuality, I never never condemn anybody for the direction in which they are tempted. It is in the yielding to temptation that we have our sin. I don't know how that strikes you. But it is a distinction that I feel so many fail to make, and that it is a sin to fail to make that distinction.

    As for the controversies over the findings of science, to often we fail to realize the utter sincerity of those on the opposite side. What could be more sacred than the sincere pursuit of truth? Why do we so often ascribe to the other side all evil, when it is so clear they are doing their best to find the truth?

    Paul earnestly wrote that we need to accept our brother who, due to some kind of spiritual weakness, entertains the wrong idea on a subject.

    Who is the one who is "weak in faith" but the one who entertains the wrong idea, unlike me, whose ideas are of course all correct?

    Paul deliberately wanted each of us to understand that verse applies personally! If we are indeed closer to the truth, let us therefore be all the more tolerant, just because we are the stronger!
     
  5. Charles Meadows

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    Why do some "Christians" go to hell?

    Because they add their own legalistic works to salvation!! Because theylove their own new "law" more than God's children! If you don't do this you're not saved! If you don't believe eternal security you're not saved! If you don't reject "devolution" you're not saved!

    Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees - and indeed such are these!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  6. USN2Pulpit

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    A very eloquent post, SimplyBee. It seems as though you're quite aware of all the arguments against your position, that's for sure. The reason these are powerful arguments is because they are written in the Word in black & white. There is no mistaking the meaning. So I approach this issue with you in love, recommending that you consider the Word of God above your own particular desires - as difficult as that may be for you - see where God takes you!

    As to the original question, I believe "a form of religion" is why many church-goers will wind up in hell. Jesus said, "not all that say unto me 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven." They believe that faithful attendance in church is the key to their salvation, and have never truly given themselves over to God in confession of sin, repentance, and belief. They are counterfeit Christians, fooling not only their churches, but themselves.
     
  7. Charles Meadows

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    SimplyBee,

    I certainly feel for you. I can only imagine the anguish you feel at times. I know certain people are born with tendencies, that much is sure.

    I am quite uncomfortable with the hate thrown in the direction of people like you. I affirm that the Bible speaks of nonheterosexual relations as being sinful - but not any more sinful than other sexual sins. A person with homosexual tendencies who lives a life of purity and abstinence is probably alot closer to God than most of us!

    It seems that lots of Christians like to throw away Jesus' examples of kindness and forgiveness because Paul exhibited a bit of righteous anger at times!
     
  8. HankD

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    Sin is sin.

    John 8
    34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
    35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: [but] the Son abideth ever.
    36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
     
  9. Terry_Herrington

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    You are correct. As long as you continue to hold up a perverted lifestyle as being acceptable to the Lord, this is exactly what you will receive, and rightfully so.

    Rom 1:27
    27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
    (KJV)
     
  10. Me2

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    the grace of God is impartial and compassionate towards all his enemies. bar none

    the reason why people temporarily "go to hell" is because they are being used as examples of those who think they can control the distribution of Gods grace towards his enemies.

    Me2
     
  11. DavidsAngel

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    Simply Bee,

    The Christ I serve taught tolerance, peace and love. Over everything he taught us were that we are all sinners, and no two sinners are exactly alike. Sin is sin, no matter how you slice it. Even though i'm a saved woman, I still have sin in my life. I don't think there is a saved person out there that can say they are perfect. It's just most of us our sins are still hidden and not a popular topic for debate. Your salvation is between you and God and no one else. If you believe in Christ you will go to heaven. That is the faith we all believe. No matter what happens, all you must do is believe. Believe that he died for you, There were never any other conditions on salvation. John 3:16 has no clauses as i've stated several times. I loved your post. I too am looking for my path though the confusion. You are in my prayers that you find your way [​IMG]

    Your sister in Christ,

    Wendy
     
  12. massdak

    massdak
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    i would like to ask those who disagree to explain this verse>>>>>

    1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
     
  13. DavidsAngel

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    Terry I'm sorry but, I do not agree with this. It would be like someone taking up against every sin and chastising everyone for everything they did wrong in thier life. In Sodom and Gammorah, Did God tell Lot to make fun of them? Did he tell Lot and his family to put them down? No he told them to leave, and HE dealt with it. It is not for us to point out the sins of our brothers and sisters.. Afterall would you want your life under a microscope? Of course not none of us would.

    You may tell them in a CHRISTAN way, after that it's up to them. Not us. You are not going to have to answer for thier sins, but you will have to answer for yours. I don't know about you but, I have enough sin in my life, I don't need to worry about anyone else.

    Your sister in Christ,

    Wendy
     
  14. DavidsAngel

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    Massdak you have to read on down to verse 11

    And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are santified, but ye are jsutified in the name of the LORD JESUS, and by the spirit of God.

    Massdak, you must remember if you read that entire list none of us will make it to heaven. We are ALL guilty of a sin on that entire list (verses 8-10) But, verse 11 is the PROMISE Of our salvation. And if you read the beginning of this chapter it reminds you not to judge lest ye shall be judged :-/.

    In Christ,

    Wendy
     
  15. Debby in Philly

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    Christians who believe the Bible need to be reminded of an important fact. While we know the Bible teaches that homosexual behavior is indeed sin, SIN is SIN in God's eyes, no different from any other. And we are all sinners.

    The problem with homosexual sin is that society has begun to consider it OK, and somehow equate the treatment people receive because of it with "rights" issues, much like the the sin of murder in the form of abortion.

    We need to recognize sin as sin, and simply that. We need to begin to treat those affected by it the same as we treat any other group of people that need to be reached with the Gospel and set free from the bondage of sin, regardless of what sin it is.

    Here is an article from Christianity Today Magazine, that while its title concerns gay "marriage", goes on to talk about ways we can address the issue spoken of here.

    CHRISTIANITY TODAY ARTICLE
     
  16. Terry_Herrington

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    Massdak, it is hopeless to get many to see and acknowledge all of what the Scriptures teach.

    Along with belief in Jesus Christ as the Messiah, one must also repent of their sins. Without repentance, there is no salvation.

    It is entirely possible for a Christian to sin. However, committing sin and accepting sin are two separate things. For a Christian to struggle with homosexuality is one thing. For a person to say that homosexuality is acceptable with God and then claim to be a Christian is quite another. For someone to think that God accepts this perverted lifestyle is absolutely wrong.
     
  17. DavidsAngel

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    Terry is it so impossible to believe that Homosexual's can go to heaven? I mean honestly Paul was a Murderer of christains, one of the worst in the world. He changed his life and became one of the most Godly men of record.

    Some people think that homosexuality is something your are born with, as some people think that you can be born with baldness, or another so called "defect".

    I prefer to go with the thought that, we are all sinners, we all have at least one major sin. When I mean by major, is something we know is wrong, but is something we continue to do. It's a christan maturity thing. WE are all on diffrent places of Christan Maturity.

    My point is that Christ taught Tolerance for everyone, not just some sinners, but ALL of them. He taught us to love our enemies as we loved him. I don't think that Bee is your enemy no. I'm mearly trying to point out that we should work on our own sin, because we all have it.
     
  18. Charles Meadows

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    Massdak,

    There are 2 issues here.

    The verse from 1 Cor is pretty clear. No one who leads an actively sinful lifestyle will go to heaven. As much as my human compassion would like to believe otherwise - scripture is clear that homosexuality is always sin. One cannot effectively be a practicing homosexual and a Christian. That being said the others are sin as well. I don't think a single church goer who is sexually active with his/her significant other is in any better standing than the practicing homosexual.

    The second issue relates to "orientation". Romans 1:26 suggests that the desire to have homosexual relations can be the result of sin. That does not preclude an individual being born with an inclination toward homosexuality. I have had many tell me that they would never choose to have such feelings. This matters only in that one who is tempted to have homosexual relations but does not has not sinned. The act is sin no matter what. I don't think the bible intends to take a stand on the temptation. Indeed aren't we all tempted to sin?
     
  19. rufus

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    Because they do not trust Christ Jesus!

    Rufus
     
  20. USN2Pulpit

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    DavidsAngel, notice the word highlighted in the text you brought up - "were." It's an important word. Because when we are truly saved, we become new creatures - no longer slave to the old ways. These are things that should forever be put away if a person is truly "washed," "sanctified," and "justified in the name of the LORD JESUS, and by the Spirit of God."

    Now this covers much more than the subject of homosexuality for sure, and it certainly doesn't relieve us of the responsibility to lead a righteous life as a disciple of Christ.

    Should we as regenerate children of God go on sinning so that grace may abound? By no means!
     

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